Please pray for Jon Cardwell

I have been coresponding with Jon Cardwell over the past year. He is a missionary in Alaska yet has found out he has ALS otherwise know as "Lou Gehrig's disease". I was saddened to hear this. ALS is a slow degenerative muscle disease so it will take some time for it to have it's full effect on Jon. He still has needs as making a living.

I have asked people to pray over the internet a few times and have seen miracles. From the miracle of my son who was rapidly losing weight from birth and not eathing to see him begin to eat and gain strength and weight the very day many prayed, to the recent fires in Molt/Park City area in which none of my relatives property was damaged by fire. In fact one relative had the fire stop right at her property line and there seems no reason other than divine intervention.

I know God can heal people and I ask that you pray for Jon. He is currently in the lower states looking for places to preach and possibly to be the full time pastor.

Please Bless Jon and his family,

iggy

Spiritual side of discernment

I personally do not know who Patrick Ersig is, yet I will say that this post at Sermonindex.net is spot on. My prayer is and has always been for those who claim to be "discerning" yet seem more intent on judging and condemning that they learn true discernment.

Please read it prayerfully and as the author desires.

Be blessed,

iggy

So Ken Silva... What is your beef with Tony Jones?

I am going to just ask this open question.

I have read much of Ken Silva' "false" accusations against many... yet I am wondering what are the specific things Ken holds against Tony?

Now, if you use the "Tony used the "f" word... I will remind you Ken you used the headline,and the quote many more times than Tony has... and in fact I am on record as asking Tony to tame down his language... so let's move on from that one.

Yet, how can you justify the name calling?

What are the facts behind these "names"... that make them so true?

I am holding this out so that you can state your case. So far I see these as slander and lies... but then, it seems you thrive on those things.

So, without making this all about me... let's talk about Tony Jones... and all the facts (which seemed to become opinions as of late) that you have piling up against him.

iggy

Updated: This is an example of Ken's "research" (now opinion) in which as usual he gives only half the story.

Source 1: Ken lies and slanders Bruce.

Source 2: Bruce tells the rest of the story.

So Ken... about the lies and slander (I mean "opinions") concerning Tony... I am still waiting for you to prove your lies and slander as Truth...

Of respect and gentleness

Normally I might have had about 5 or 6 posts out this week... yet for some reason I am just not that motivated.

Partly there are some things at work... I won't go into detail but the stress level has risen a bit. I also have been feeling better but in that I am doing more outside thing. Being on that statin drug limited me as far as what i could or felt able to do... Most often work drained me and I would on occasion go for a walk, but mostly I just felt "tired".

The other thing is I am taking some time as to a direction... I was going to pop off a couple of "John MacArthur" posts, but they seems lame and quite frankly John MacArthur has become a bit boring. Also, I think that there is not much more to say. I do not agree with "Lordship Salvation" nor do I agree that one must commit to all the things John states one does to be saved... as that is "works" plain and simple... I see that if one accepts Jesus for Who He is... one will grow in their faith and realize what and who Jesus is. Noted that most Lordship Salvation people miss that all will call Jesus Lord one day... but not all will be saved in their acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. Some will bend that knee and call Him Lord and still enter the Lake of Fire.

NOW, I have had some fun at CRN.info as they have some really good posts up now... I would at least take a look at this weeks worth of post... I have done a lot of comments there... enough to probably have posted a good dozen times here.

Yet, still I am truly wanting to move in a different direction. Sparing with someone over theology is fun, but if the other is more resentful toward you and has little to no respect, it gets a bit tiresome to continue a dialog that seems to only entrench oneself further in one own position.

I will not state the name, but I have also been emailing back and forth with a writer from CRN who thinks I have been using Ken Silva as a punching bag at CRN.info... I noted that it goes like this...

I ask Ken a question concerning he accusation against me or that he set up in an article... Ken responds with mockery or a put down... I do something like a Jujitsu move using Ken's own momentum and then he just gets nastier.

But, you see the guy missed that Ken started the punch with accusation that have nothing behind them...

I have asked for direct quotes concerning the accusations against people like Brian McLaren...

1. Where has he stated he does not believe in the biblical "Hell"?
2. Where has he stated he is a "universalist"?
3.Where has he stated that to be gay is OK and not a sin?

What I am usually given, if given anything is a video that states we need to have compassion on the lost... which includes gay people... but no where does Brian condone sin.

I also asked for quotes about other accusations.

1. Give me a direct quote where Tony Jones or anyone at Emergent Village denies "biblical" truth.
2. Show me a direct quote that anyone at emergent village denies the "authority" of scripture.


Now, the inerrancy question is not about same issue that most "fundamentalist" think... as they have a definition that is much different from those who originally stated the definition was. And yes, Spencer Burke has stated he is a universalist... but most miss that there is a twist... he believes in hell... so, all emergents deny hell except Spencer... LOL!

It is a crazy world.

In this conversation we acknowledge no one has it all together or has all the answers. Theology should not just be about sword rattling, but it can also be fun. If we cannot talk to each other, then we miss out that someone might have a piece that we needed that can help our understanding of our faith in God. We will and should not all agree... and yes some are or have gone off the tracks, yet i see that in even the fundamentalist who believes KJVonly... or that tongue have ended... or that prophecy has ended... (as in the case of Frank Turk at teampyro, who seems to like to defend the self proclaimed last day prophet Ken Silva... go figure that one out).

This is a fascinating time and really a hard time. Many miss that schools do not teach "biblical" ideas... that God is not a given in most homes and that the American dream has replace Christian values. Yet, somehow people expect that others just understand the Christian world view... but you see, the world is watching us... and they are wiser that we give them credit. Even Jesus pointed that out in the parable of the shrewd manager in Luke 16.

When we do not take time to listen and already assume we have the answer I see we lose out at the chance that God will do something even greater. It is not wrong to be able to give an answer... but the last part of the oft quoted verse... is with gentleness and kindness... here see what I mean.

1 Peter 3: 15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

When we lose sight of gentleness and respect truly we must then rationalize things like our judgmentalism... and we lose even more as we give ground for others to speak maliciously against us and against Jesus.

I know I am guilty of this... so no need to write and tell me. Yet, I always look for any opportunity to move toward reconciliation and that one can be restored. I may rag on Ken Silva, but I earnestly seek that he can see the harm he has done and that his ministry can also focus on not just the negative, but give praise to those who show that they are orthodox and not just run them down more. I pray that Ken also gives a door to reconciliation and restoration of the brothers he sees as "in sin" and more I pray that humility will allow Ken to go to even greater heights in his ministry.

So, I guess this post is about gentleness and respect for others. Give an answer... but realize that even if you can answer all the questions a person has... the only real answer is Jesus and that is truly all we have to give anyone.

Again, I am far from the target... but that is why I turned to Jesus in the first place.

Be Blessed,
iggy

Dan Kimball responds to his critics

At CRNinfo Dan Kimball responded to his critics... again...

Read it hear.

Note in the comments the ever gracious Ken Silva states:

"So it’s all quite vague to me when there are no clear answers forthcoming as to how this fits into what Dr. Walter Martin so often called the historic orthodox Christian Church."

It seems no matter what or how detailed the "orthodox"definition an emerging person is... it never satisfied "the Ken".


Blessings,
iggy

Finding new people linking to me...

Finding new people linking to me... is like finding a treasure... i am always amazed when I find people that do that... in fact i am amazed that anyone links to me! LOL!

Sometimes I am honored and then horrifed as I have a huge respect for many of you who link to me... so i shudder a bit and wonder if I am posting anything of real quality.

Recently i found out that Jon Trott of JPUSA has linked to me... He is one of the reporters from Cornerstone magazine who broke open the story of Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford being fraudualant...

As awful as I feel about it, I was crushed to read the stories as i was a huge fan of Mike Warnke... yet... what he did was not right as lying is not the best way to evangelize other to come to Christ.

It is an honor Jon to have your link. I really recommend checking his blog out.

I also recently have started a new blog that has been getting a ton of attention... I have had links from Tony Jones and a few others. Watching the Watchdawgies For Christ is not even a blog i want to do... in fact I feel like I am babysitting. I just felt tired of watching some act like schoolyard bullies who lie about many of my friends... and I guess i have some issues to work out against schoolyard bullies. LOL!

So, if you have anything to contribute to the WtWFC blog feel free to contact me. Mostly I am watching Christian Research Network.. and Apprising ministries (those links will garner a visit from Ken Silva, you just watch!) Yet i also read the contributors sites and some others who have slandered myself and others on the blogosphere.

So... with that I desire all of your prayers so that i am fair and honest myself... I know i can push the limits as far as telling it like it is and sometimes sound less loving than i mean things to sound...

Also, pray for Ken Silva and CRN that they can attain the desires of their hearts as they line up with the will of God instead of quoting people, then creating a new context and constructing straw men arguments that no one can argue against... except those of us who have seen the quote in context and note that Ken is lying...

Be blessed,
iggy

Awesome testimony of God's Grace...

Awesome testimony of God's Grace...

I have gotten to know Henry (Rick) Frueh at CRN.Info and Analysis over the last few months. At first I was not sure where he was coming from...

I recently went to his blog and read a bit of his testimony... and was very blessed with how God can reach into the heart of a man and change him.

Be blessed,
iggy

OK... if you think I have gone too far... then...

OK. If you think I have gone too far in something... most probably I have. I admit it! I am a frail creature who sometimes lets that worldly flesh get the better of me...

BUT PLEASE NOTE THIS:

My intention is not to just tear down anyone at CRN... but I hope to show that there is some really bad things going on there and if they are a part of it just saying, " I didn't write that so don't hold me accountable over someone else's post." It just does not cut it... you are in a "network" and in the "network" as the dictionary defines...

"An extended group of people with similar interests or concerns who interact and remain in informal contact for mutual assistance or support."

You are connected because of similar interests. So what are we to surmise from that? What are your similar interests... it seems that there are a bunch of people that seem to want to rag on others they disagree with... (which is one of the criticisms of the emerging church btw) And in that "ragging" it is often about very MINOR issues as opposed to calling someone a name... or a heretic... or an apostate.

The Bible tells us we will have disagreement, (1 Cor 11:19) yet that is not to divide over. (1 Cor 1:10).

So, can we disagree and yet live at peace? I know the people I associate and network with would do this in a heartbeat... or less... how about your group?

In our disagreements we are told to "live at peace as best you can" (Romans 12:18) as the body of Christ is not divided... and all parts are needed. (1 Cor 12)

So I appeal to scripture... as I already noted that how can some speak against the very Body of our Lord and say that you do not need all its members? Think about that the next time you go to speak against a brother in Christ... (If you have decided that some are not "brothers" I cannot help you... I will only pray that you come to your senses and realize you are not God and cannot see into another man's heart... for only Holy Spirit know the heart of man.(Romans 8:27)

I close with this appeal to you who see fit to judge others...

1 Cor 4:5 5. " Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

I think "nothing" is pretty clear here... so until the Lord comes hold your judgment for only Christ Jesus will judge in all fairness and justly... John 5:22-23 states:

"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him."

And finally these words of Jesus Who states in John 8:15-16

"You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me."

Are you willing to take the chance and judge another by your human standards? Are you perfectly just in all your decisions? Are all your decisions right?

Then go ahead an judge all you want for you are now God...

Dishonesty abounds at Pyromaniacs!!!!!

Once again the John MacArthur Crew has taken a sentence, wrenched it out of context, created a new context just so that they could slander someone who is associated with the emerging church movement.

To read the slander by Phil Johnson follow this link.


Dan:
Hello, Dan Kimball here....

Someone emailed me to let me know that Phil posted some opinions on what I wrote and believe.

I thought I would clear up some of the things being misunderstood or left out of what I actually wrote on the chapter as being discussed here.

For one, the book "Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches" was not supposed to be an exhaustive list of everything we believe. That would take a whole volume or more. We were given freedom to write whatever we wanted to and expand on anything, but we were specifically asked to make sure we covered some core theological topics such as the atonement, the Scriptures, the Trinity and religious pluralism.

So when you read what I wrote, I tried to focus on those core things - never saying that is all I believe nor limiting it to there to only what is in the Nicene Creed. I said after that, I do tread with humility and prayer and wonder about things that godly people throughout church history have had differences of opinions on. But I specifically made sure I said that I do have doctrinal beliefs beyond the Nicene Creed. For those that have not read the chapter, you should be aware that I also stated other beliefs.

On page 105 I specifically said "It is hard to communicate in one chapter what a church believes and practices theologically. I tried to highlight a few core beliefs and share my heart about the importance of theology."

On page 94 I said "Please understand, that as I say I left more to mystery, it doesn't mean I don't believe you can't come to solid conclusions about many things in addition to the Nicene Creed. There are many things mentioned that I believe are clear, such as Jesus' teaching about marriage, the authority of the Bible itself, the role of the Spirit in personal transformation."

I clearly stated in the chapter I believe in a Triune God (pages 99-100), I believe in the substitionary atonement (pages 100-101), believe in the inspiration and authority of the Scriptures (page 94-97), that all religions do not lead to God (page 101-102), an eternal heaven and hell (page 102).

Phil, you rather sharply and in my opinion very inaccurately wrote about my message in the chapter:"

The message of Kimball's chapter seems to epitomize the trend: "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:7)."

I clearly stated that I have belief in "truth" giving some brief listings of theological positions on very core doctrines in addition to those in the Nicene Creed. I also wrote a section with a header called "We can be bold and confident in what the Scriptures do make clear" (page 99).

I read at your own Shepherd's Conference the flurry of debate about your end times distinct position that was spoken on. Would all those who hold to core doctrines as I listed for myself, but believe in an amillennial position be seens as 2 Timothy 3:7 kinds of people?

If anyone in your circles and frequenters of this blog has specific questions to clarify anything I believe, or what our church practices, please feel free to go to my blog www.dankimball.com and I will be more than happy to respond or to answer questions.

This summer, two students from Masters College visited our church on a Sunday. Afterwards, they said something like "This is nothing like we expected. You preached from the Bible." They listed other things from Masters College that they were taught all emerging churches were supposed to be like. Some of the descriptions were so incredibly sad and inaccurate and I was glad they got to see and experience first hand that some of the stereotypes and accusations were not all true.

Peace in Jesus - Dan

www.dankimball.com
11:46 AM, April 06, 2007

My take on all this:

The constant mode of operation from the critics of the emerging church is very consistent. They take a sentence and then build a straw man argument to make it say the opposite that it really does. It seems that Truth is not that important and that lying is a “righteous thing” if you are attacking someone you believe to be a heretic. The real issue is this. How can anyone justify attacking another brother in the Lord? It seems that Scripture means little to the John MacArthur and Crew crowd as they seem to not care that scripture itself tells us so often to not judge each other and that Jesus alone is to be the Judge over all mankind.

Romans 8: 29-39.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

As it is written

"For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

It is sad that JM and crew seem fitting that they should attack Dan Kimball over the weekend we celebrate the Resurrection. For by the resurrection we have been justified by Christ and set free… yet some seem fit to usurp Christ from the Throne and judge others themselves… with slanderous lies…

So once again we find from the JM crowd… that it is “Grace to you” only if you line up behind John MacArthur…

Beware of divisive men!

You can read Bob Hyatts response here.

So it seems the "Truth wars" are officially on... and so far the accusers are ranking a big zero on the truth meter... and owe one huge apology... yet I really think that pride will keep Phil Johnson from being able to see his own arrogant ways.

Blessings,

iggy

Be sure to check out the latest at Watching the watchdawgs for Christ blog... Does Ken need real help?

Close your eyes if you want to...

Close your eyes if you want to...

"How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur?
Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?"
So, ignore this transition if you want to, and treat it like a phase if you want to. I think you'll miss one of the most exciting times in anyone's memory.

Here's how I think about it: Imagine yourself a Roman Catholic monk in say 1510, in Germany or Austria or England or Switzerland. The world is about to change. The institutions and theologies that have sustained and nourished your faith are about to be challenged. Jon Huss has already been burned at the stake, and a fellow named Martin Luther is beginning to think some dangerous thoughts. Your institutions are bastardizing themselves (if not through indulgences, then through TV/radio evangelists, the religious right, and other fear-based fundraising machines). How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur? Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?

Or maybe simply observe it, uninvolved? Critique it, feeling smug, as if only "they" are in danger, and not also "us"? Tame it, trying to neuter it and co- opt it into a gentle, incremental evolution (and so preserve our modern structures, etc.) instead of a radical, energetic innovation? Or help lead it, passionate, involved?

Something to think about.

You can guess where my heart is." Brian Mclaren


Now re-read the post before this by Spurgeon.


Blessings,
iggy

Christian Research Network Endorses Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford.

Christian Research Network Endorses Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford.

Dwyana Litz is on record of stating that she believes those who did the expose’ on Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford are liars and a Satanic front.

Cornerstone magazine did a report in 1991 that exposed Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford as frauds, here is the story.

Dwyana Litz has openly attacked Jesus People USA and has now called John Trott a liar… John gives his rebuttal here.

Here is a bit from Wikipedia as far as the facts.

"Investigation, debunking and disgrace
In 1991, Cornerstone magazine launched an investigation into Warnke's life and testimony. The previous year, that magazine had debunked the story recounted in Satan's Underground, by Lauren Stratford who claimed her deep involvement in Satanism led her to partake in a ritual in which her own child was sacrificed. After this exposé, which showed that for instance, Stratford's alleged child never existed, Cornerstone journalists Mike Hertenstein and Jon Trott investigated Warnke. They investigated Warnke's life, from interviews with over 100 personal friends and acquaintances, to his ministry's tax receipts. Their investigation turned up damaging evidence of fraud and deceipt.

The investigation revealed pictures of Warnke taken during the precise time of his alleged status as a Satanist priest. Instead of an emaciated drug-addict sporting long fingernails and waist-length hair, the pictures showed Warnke to be a typical 'square' of the mid-1960s.[citation needed] The investigation refuted, for instance, Warnke's claims that mass-murderer he and Charles Manson had attended a Satanic ritual — Manson was in federal prison at the time. It also uncovered that before even joining the Navy, where Warnke claims to have converted, he had been involved with a college Christian ministry, Campus Crusade for Christ. The investigation also revealed the unflattering circumstances surrounding Warnke's multiple marriages, affairs, and divorces. Most critically, however, the investigation showed how Warnke could not possibly have done the many things he claimed to have done throughout his nine-month tenure as a Satanist, much less become a drug-addicted dealer or become a Satanic high preist.[7]

Before publishing the article, Cornerstone contacted Warnke for an interview, but Warnke claimed that he and Cornerstone could not agree to the terms of an interview.[8] In June 1992, at the annual Christian Booksellers' Association convention, Cornerstone revealed its story. "


Mike never really apologized and as you read in the links on John Trott’s site it seems he is just upset he was caught.

I am growing ever more concerned at the Christian Research Network as they seem loose with facts as with the recent Beth Moore innuendo that she is an apostate because of how much she charges.

Be aware that these people are not discerning at all. In fact it seems the more accountable we cry out for them to be the nastier and snide and mocking they get. Ken Silva seems to think he is above reproach. It should be a warning sign as Satan appears as an angel of light and his messengers agents of righteousness.

I have tried to contact at least three of the contributors and have dialoged with them… yet though they seem more open in the emails, they seem to return to the view that it is a righteous thing to slander and lie and do damage to their bothers in Christ.

Walter Martin held much more charity towards Mormons than Ken Silva and the gossip crew does at CRN with whom they have doctrinal disagreements with.

Blessings,
iggy

Christian Research Network... Now Beth Moore is an Apostate!

Yep... now Beth Moore is an apostate! You heard it from Ken and the gang at CRN... And what Biblical reason is given? She charged $55 a seat at a conference...

Yet, I bet if Ken could charge $55 a seat to "teach us" he would!
It just never stops at CRN... it only seems to get worse...

Notice there is not one mention as to WHY she is an apostate... the just link to someone who hates her and then call it a day... great job at research again...

Actually Beth Moore cost seems rather inexpensive compared to The Shepherd's Conference and what is charge for the conferences!!!

Here is the COST OF THE THIS CONFERENCE!!!! This was promoted by Phil Johnson...
So using the logic of CRN it seems these guys are more apostate than Beth Moore...


Now I might add that if you look at the most expensive Beth Moore study it is priced at $100 yet if you go to the Shepherds' Fellowship you will have to spend $200 for their studies...

So, do the math...

Blessed?
iggy

God Values the Blood of Jesus... For He Alone is Worthy

I want to way the this post is not about "self worth" as some teach be it Dr. Phil or the John MacArthurist two steppin' around "psychobabble" and not seeing that any system that is not for Jesus is against Him and is of the antichrist... of it is of this world and not of the truth.

To quote from one of the defenders of John MacArthur (against the bi polar opposite Darwin Fish and Rick Miesel. Darwin Fish would be the polar opposite of John MacArthur yet both seem to be into a extreme separatist theology so in that way have more in common than they realize)

"Therefore, we will make three general observations about psychology prior to beginning our defense of MacArthur's teachings.

Observation One: Psychology is not a false religion. Although it is becoming increasingly popular among biblically minded Christians to call psychology a false religion, it really cannot be classified as a false religion. Psychology has never pretended to be a religious system and has never attempted to create a religious system. In fact, most of the psychological schools of thought were started by atheists who specifically rejected religion, particularly Christianity."

Again, it is a religion that believes man can solve his own issues with his own knowledge... that is the "core" of all false religions...



"Observation two: Psychology is not another gospel. Believing that psychology is another gospel can lead to as much deception as believing that it is a false religion. As stated previously, psychology is nothing more than the world's attempt to study and understand the human mind and to observe and understand human behavior. In contrast, the gospel is the good news "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3-4). In other words, the gospel is about Christ's bearing our sins and our receiving the merit of His righteousness."

I find it funny that they claim it is not another "gospel". The Caesar's proclaimed a "gospel of Caesar worship"... yet to use the logic here, since that was a "government" and not a religion, then it cannot be another "gospel". To those who are caught in the system of psychology they are caught in the false idea the their salvation is from drugs, doctors or some sort of pseudo spirituality such as Jungian visualization. I am not saying that some people cannot be helped by medication, nor that a psychologist can't offer good advice, but if a person trusts in anything outside of Jesus for their salvation, they will be lost... plain and simple.


Observation Three: Christian psychology does not exist. Although there are Christians that have become psychologists, there is no such thing as Christian Psychology. In fact, it is impossible to have a psychological school of thought that could be accurately classified as Christian. This is because Christianity and the gospel are virtually synonymous. Therefore, integrating psychology into Christianity is equivalent to integrating psychology into the gospel. Some may dispute this fact but a close examination of the gospel as stated above will prove that the gospel is not merely a part of Christianity but in fact is Christianity. Consequently, any attempt to create a specialized field of psychology that integrates Christianity and psychology will eventually lead to a corruption of the gospel.

Again, to a degree I may agree, yet there are gifted (by God) to counsel and console those who need guidance. If one is guided by the Holy Spirit and has some education then to me that is not "Christian psychology".

Again this all is an example of the double talk and lack of historical understanding that runs though much of John's teachings.

Jesus did not come to show us our self worth but that He was worthy. Though it seems on one hand John states comments like:

"A true sense of self-worth comes from understanding our position in Christ. We have been chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the world. Knowing this gives us a sense of our significance and value to God."

It is interesting to me that self-worth is not even a Biblical thought... "Worthy is the Lamb" have worth only because we are "in Christ" and in that Christ Jesus is worthy. There is no worth in ourselves nor do we gain worth by our "position" as a believer... as John asserts. His view is that we have been raised to a "position as opposed to being "placed in Christ Jesus". There is a big difference. One still focuses on the "self" in self worth... while the other realizes one is dead in their sins and needs a Saviour... and that Saviour is the worthy One.

TO do the MacArthur sidestep is to deny self but put focus back on self in that we do works to prove our salvation. Again, these are not our works, but Christ Jesus doing these works in and through us. So we only prove Christ Jesus' worthiness as we do them.

Does God value us? Yes! Does God love us? Yes! But in know way does God see us worthy before or after salvation. Again, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain." It is by the Blood we are saved despite being unworthy. TO teach worthiness before or after salvation negates the Blood of Christ and the Power and reason of the Cross and Resurrection.

Blessings,
iggy

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Obedience of Faith… (Lordship Salvation?)

Obedience of Faith…



In the Book of Daniel (Chapter 9) we are told that the Mashiach which is transliterated into Greek as Christ, will come... both of these mean "Anointed One". If one even reads a superficial reading of the OT they will find the one's that are anointed were kings... Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords... He is God incarnate, the Creator and Living Word of God...

To demand one must accept Him as "Lord" of their life lowers Who He actually is! We have no life to give Jesus, that is a misnomer. It misses the very point we are DEAD in our sins... and a dead person is not regenerated until they receive LIFE... and that is the Life of Christ or the Holy Spirit... John is teaching that one must receive the Holy Spirit before they can receive the Holy Spirit... which is nonsense.

The washing of regeneration happens when one receives Jesus... not before... Titus 3:5

A simple reading of Titus shows this out...

Titus 3: 4-7

“But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”


Notice "He saved us" it is repeated twice... It is by His mercy we are saved... BY the washing of regeneration... regeneration is not before... but at the time of salvation... why? We are renewed by the Holy Spirit...

John MacArthur and many Calvinists teach that regeneration comes before the Holy Spirit is received and that is impossible as one must have the Holy Spirit to be regenerated! One must receive Life and be raised from our own death into the Life of Christ to be saved! Then we are regenerated by the very life of Christ... or by the Spirit Who is Life... One must be dead, buried and resurrected “in Christ” to be regenerated by Christ.

This summed up clearly by verse 7: That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


We are first justified by His Grace then made heirs as we have the hope now of eternal life. As we turn in Faith which is a gift of God, we express this by our hope that we are justified and now have eternal Life...

To turn this around make no sense... and demands that a person must be saved to get saved... and that is nonsensical... and that negates the Blood of Jesus.

Now here is the major flaw in the Lordship debate. Faith and obedience are connected… yet not in the way John MacArthur is stating… in fact the way John and many other understand obedience turns obedience into “works righteousness”.

We all agree with the Apostles and Peter and that “We ought to obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) Yet many as I said do not understand what that obedience is… We are called to the “obedience of Christ” and in that way take all thoughts captive. (2 Cor 10:5) Yet, few notice it is “of Christ” from where the obedience comes… if it being “of Christ” then it is not “of us”… or from our own works…

Romans 5:19 really hit me one day. “

“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus) shall many be made righteous.” (I added Jesus for clarity as in the context it is understood.)

Because Adam sinned, we died, for we were inside Adam’s loins as we are all descendents of Adam.

This is a bit hard for some to grasp, yet it is what the writer of Hebrews uses to explain about why the Priesthood of Melchizedek was greater than the Priesthood of Levi, for Abraham gave tithe to Melchizedek which was giving honor, and Levi was still in the loins of Abraham. (One must think a bit like a Rabbi here to understand the logic - Hebrews 7)

We who are in Christ are born of the man of heaven. 1 Cor 15: 45 – 49 states:

“So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.”

In Christ we are born of the Spirit… in that we are made righteous by the One man’s (Jesus) obedience… we walk in His obedience and not our own…


God had kept this all a mystery. Yet, now God has opened to all nations the obedience of faith through Jesus Christ. (Romans 16:25-27)

Faith is a gift… (Ephesians 2:8) It is also trusting that God is faithful to His Word and will do as He promised. We walk in “faith” and not by sight. Many think that walking in faith is doing good works… but there are no good works aside from the works God has prepared for us to do… to think we can do works whether to “prove our salvation”, earn “brownie points” with God, or even become more “sanctified” misses the point completely. We are saved by Grace through faith and sustained by Grace through faith… nothing is of us, all is of God. In the book of Galatians 3:3 Paul asks a question. “After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” We would be wise to consider the answer… if we say yes, then we are saying we “sanctify ourselves” if we say no, they we say it is God who sanctifies us. It is the Holy Spirit that sanctifies us… as 1 Peter states “through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.” The “works” are God’s by His Spirit… and it is the Holy Spirit that sanctifies us. (1 Thessalonians 5: 23) for we are told in 2 Thessalonians 2: 13, “because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.”

God sustains us. Some might think this is a Armenian versus Calvinist argument… to me it is not… it is a Calvinist vs. the Bible debate. Now saying that I will add that I am not a “Calvinist hater” I am not saying a Calvinist is not saved (confused maybe on some important issues) but I would never say we must separate over differences in our doctrine. Man is a flawed and finite creature. We easily can fall sway to “man’s” teachings… be it “free grace”, “Lordship salvation”, “Works righteousness”. I am also not saying at all I have all the answers, yet I will say I am sharing out of years of bondage under “works” and have lived years “under grace”. No one has ever been “free”. We have “free will” yet when we were not in Christ, we were slaves to sin, and if now one is in Christ we are a slave to righteousness… I pray whatever tradition you have chosen that you will chose to walk in the faith God has given you. (Rom 6)

We are to walk as Jesus walked… and in that as 2 John 1 states:

“And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.”

If we are “in Jesus” as He is in the Father, we are immersed in Love… for “God is Love”. (1 john 4:8)


One can accept Jesus as Lord, yet the real issue is that is not even enough... for one who has come to a relationship with Jesus must at some time realize that Jesus is one's very LIFE. "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." (1 Philippians 1:21)

For it is by His Grace we even come to eternal Life.

Blessings,
iggy

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Regeneration does not precede faith…

Regeneration does not precede faith…

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -Titus 3:5-7


How can it?

Once one actually notices the context of Titus 3:5-7 one should notice that one must be saved first to be regenerated… notice the first three words of the paragraph.



“He saved us.”

This is written to those who are already saved, not to those who need to get saved.
To say one must have a regenerate mind to receive the salvation gets things so out of whack… it is saying one must somehow get saved… before getting saved!

This is a teaching widely spread and is accepted. Yet, if one bothered to read the passage one might actually see the great salvation of our Great God!

We are saved by Grace…

By Faith…

Not of works…

It is Faith that is a gift… given to us that enables us to turn, we still must come to Christ and be regenerated as we must first receive the Holy Spirit to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. If one has not yet been filled by the Holy Spirit then how can they be regenerated? Only after one come to Christ Jesus will they be regenerated and renewed by the Holy Spirit.

Note also these same people often teach of the wrath of God at the expense of God’s great grace… yet in the verses just before Titus 3:5-7 it is stated in verses 1 -4:

“Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,”

We are to be ready to do good works… to speak evil of no man… and to live after the kindness and love of God our Saviour. It is God’s kindness that leads us to repentance… not His wrath nor regeneration.

We cannot be regenerated of our spirit if one has not yet received the Holy Spirit Who does the work or regeneration. That is why man must acknowledge his sin nature and turn to God for salvation. Until that takes place and pride is removed… only when man humbly bends his knee and cries out “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” The God will now act upon the faith He gave for one to cry out for deliverance… only then will He deliver and give New Life… only then can man enter in through the Kindness of God’s Merciful Grace… only then will man be given the Spirit of Life that is the regeneration of our Spirit, only then by Grace do we then mover forward to conform to the Image of Jesus… only then do we be transformed by the renewing of our mind…


To say one is regenerate before salvation is heresy upon heresy as it negates the Blood of Jesus. For what value then is it if man is regenerate with out the washing of the Blood of our sins?

Again, some appeal to Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin all mighty men of God in their way… but even men of great knowledge fall prey to prove their doctrine at the expense of what the bible actually teaches. Salvation is a process and it seems some teach that regeneration can come before the process even begins.


Pray we do not fall victim this error… and lead someone to receiving the Holy Spirit before they have even turned to God. That would be just foolishness. The Spirit woos but has yet to indwell… and then we are regenerated by Him.

Faith is the gift to see in a moment our sin, and to also see the kindness of God in Christ Jesus... it is then at that moment we receive the gift of Faith by Grace... It is trusting at that moment that even though we cannot see who we are to be, we still trust that God will be faithful to do it, and after that regeneration begins. Regeneration is coming into New Life in Christ... one cannot come into that Life before they come into His Life... It is again nonsensical.

Faith is more about God's faithfulness to us than what some call our own faith. Salvation is offered by Grace. In that we respond to knowledge that God has done all for us at the Cross by His Blood... and in His death and Resurrection. We must accept that we do nothing except fall at His feet to be saved. For, just as Jesus must be our very Life... He is our only Salvation. The just shall live by faith... we are justified at the Cross and saved by His Blood, and Live by His Life giving Spirit.

So, again, all one needs to do is read three little words that sum up the issue... "He saved us".

Blessings,
iggy

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Dwayna Litz: The High Priestess of CRN Attributes Creation to Satan

OK I know i am pushing it a bit on the title... but not as much as Dwayna Litz does on this post at CRN.

She says this:

"5 Elements (pentagram)Earth, wind, fire, air, sky (or spirit)
Satan has (limited) power over the elements
Job 2:6-God gives Satan power (Job 1:6-8)
Job 1:16- Satan sends fire from heaven
Job 1:17- Satan has power over the nations
Job 2: 7- Satan has power over disease (limited)
Exodus 7:22- Satan duplicated miracles of Moses-power to work miracles
Revelation 21:1, 5 - God destroys the elements/ new heaven and new earth"



Yet, at Mosaic they say this:


WIND - Commission - Acts 2:2
Mission is why the Church exists.
WATER - Community - John 7:38
Love is the context for all mission.
WOOD - Connection - John 15:5
Structure must always submit to Spirit.
FIRE - Communion - Hebrews 12:29
Relevance to culture is not optional.
EARTH - Character - Genesis 2:7
Creativity is the natural result of spirituality


Now if one looks at the Bible about these things we find some interesting things...

Wind is also the word for Breath... and is often a reference to the Holy Spirit.

Dwayna attributes Wind to Satan... yet scripture states that God is in control...

Genesis 8:1Genesis 8 "But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded."

Water is often used in the bible for the symbol of being cleansed by God... It is related to Baptism... again God also used water to save Noah and judge the world... so God is in control of the water. (Matthew 3:11; Hebrews 10: 19-22 ; 1 Peter 3:18-20)

Wood was used for fuel at the alters for sacrifice. It is also what the Cross was made of... so also God told Noah to Build the Ark out of wood... So to attribute wood to Satan is to attribute the Cross to Satan also!

Fire is what the Holy Spirit is likened to. It is also how God will cleanse the earth... so God is in control of fire... remember also it was not Satan who sent fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah... but God... and Satan was limited by God in what he could do to Job.

Earth is what God created for man to dwell on... God created it and called it good... God is also redeeming it from dominion of fallen mankind.

Dwayna needs to be careful as she is falling into the same thing the Pharisees did with Jesus. Matthew 12:24 states much the same thought that she expresses... "But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons." "

Beware when someone attributes the things of God to Satan... as the scripture teaches: 2 Cor 11: 12-15 "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

Be not deceived...

Blessings,
iggy

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A CRN Heretic!!!! at least to them... but kudos Jon Cardwell I see you are trying to understand.

A CRN Heretic!!!! at least to them... but kudos to Jon Cardwell as I see you are trying to understand.

Really this was one of the first articles on CRN that I actually appreciated... I think this guy is at least "trying" to understand and not just carelessly toss out straw men arguments.

He claims someone called him a Ken Silva wannabe... nope I think Jon, you are much better than that and that Ken should take notice.

Here is the article.

Yet I just truly wonder... how sincere is he?

Blessings,
iggy

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CRN are the hearsay hunters... spreading gossip...

I Just followed a link on Rick's blog to another wonderful addition to the great research of CRN the gossip mill.

Following those links take you to how persecuted those at CRN think they are... never once thinking of the harm they cause to others with their lies, slander and innuendos. I have never seen them retract an incorrect statement... bearing false witness is part of the Big Ten guys... (That would be the Ten Commandments). These guys show once again they do not truly believe of follow the teaching of the bible but are out for self promotion and selfish ambition. Even when they seem to have the story right, I would doubt what they wrote as the bulk of the site is misinformation and lacking any real discernment. They seem to not truly value the Bible or Jesus' teachings. So, can you be a "christian" and hate your brothers? Can you believe the words of Jesus and slander and gossip and lie about others? Mostly can you seek after the Kingdom of God if you are building your own out of selfish ambition? Beware or divisive men and women like these.

Be sure to read the comments on the MMI post... it sets the record straight.

This is really sad.

Blessings,
iggy

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Bishop T. D. Jakes

Bishop T. D. Jakes

I have heard a few times about Bishop T.D. Jakes... and I have heard him a few times on T.V.

There are accusations that he is a Oneness Pentecostal. I have heard some real in depth "listen to this" expose' on him... yet after reading a few things from CRN and knowing what I know about those people there... I decided to look into it a bit myself.

First off I want you to know I went in with prejudice as I had heard that he was... and it was convincing... I, like many others, just assumed after that he was a "Oneness" teacher.

Yet, to quote Keith Green, "Going to church does not make you a Christian any more that going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger." Great quote isn't it?

As I suspected, and with very little effort I found something very odd...

The church that T.D. Jakes pastors at is not a Oneness church... it affirms the Trinity all over the place!!! It is almost like someone is spreading rumors and slander about the church is carefully and fully showing they what they believe!

Then there was this link... What does Bishop Jakes have to say about our doctrine statement?


The article is a response to the HEARSAY of heresy...

Just a short blurb here:


"My Views on the Godhead", Jakes responds to Christianity Today article, Apologetics Journal Criticizes Jakes. By Bishop T. D. Jakes Hearsay, not heresy.



"Both chapters of my early spiritual journey contributed volumes to my faith and walk with God, helping to hone my character. I was shaped by and appreciate both denominations, but am controlled by neither. My association with Oneness people does not constitute assimilation into their ranks anymore than my association with the homeless in our city makes me one of them."


It seems the hearsay hunters have been at it again to ruin a fellow worker for Christ by their own selfish ambition... sad really to think that if one is loving enough to actually reach out to those "in heresy" they are branded... but that is the same implementation in CRN's approach to most everything else thye claim as heresy... most the time it turns into hearsey, or as the bible states "gossip".

Now that the BIG one is cleared up... what about the other things. Of this I will say I am sure that there are some quirks in his doctrines... was Jesus a rich man? Some say yes, and some say no... but the real issue is this... is this a divisive issue? Does believing Jesus had money and used it to support His disciples have anything to do with salvation?

Or if one is teaching on a topic in a book and though the main context and such is not the main point being made... as in the story of Lazarus... the main point being proof of the resurrection ... can't there be smaller things within the story that one can learn from also?

I won't comment on what he says as part of the Word of Faith movement... there is some very bad teaching there... yet there are still people who truly love Jesus... do I not trust in the Faithfulness of God as to whether He can save and reach someone in that movement?

So after actually looking into the lies being thrown out against T.D. Jakes, I was once again set free by the truth about a brother in the Lord... and free from the lies and slander that once held me to believe that he was not a true believer...

Bruce has more thoughts on this topic at his blog.

Blessings,
iggy