Johnathan Brink had this posted on his blog. Thought I would pass it on.
Showing posts with label Brian McLaren. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Brian McLaren. Show all posts
Wednesday, September 22, 2010
Tuesday, April 27, 2010
Book Review: A New Kind of Christianity by Brian McLaren
A New Kind of Christianity by Brian McLaren
I thoroughly enjoyed this book and would regard it as my favorite since Generous Orthodoxy. It was refreshing to finally read how many of the free floating thoughts of his past books have finally gelled. Brian McLaren states very clearly where he stands on things, which was often the confusion and frustration of his other books, (at least to those who do not understand the type of writing Brian does).
The book is made up of 10 questions, which each question being designed to help one think outside of the Greco/Roman view and look at the bible from a more Hebraic point of view. The basic view is that many Christians try to view Jesus from present backwards. In essence most will view Jesus through A.W. Tozer viewing Jesus through Luther of Calvin, viewing Jesus through Augustine and Aquinas and so forth (I just picked people at random and do enjoy many of these people’s writings myself.) While Brian does not ever say these views are invalid, one must recognize they come from a very Greco/Roman ala Platonist point of view. Instead Brian McLaren proposes that one will gain a much different view if they read the bible and develop the view of Jesus as He is slowly revealed in the OT.
Interestingly, I was taught this very idea as a young Christian, via a book called Christianity Is Jewish by Edith Schaeffer and in A New Kind of Christianity, Brian McLaren, does a great job in making his point of view clear through Scripture. After building the case for his point of view, Brian McLaren then turns to how this point of view will effect and bring to light questions. Brian then frames the rest of the book by working through the 10 questions.
I do understand why many people would find this book hard. In fact Brian addresses that in the book. If you have not read any of his books, I would advise to read this book before Secret Message of Jesus and Everything Must Change, as it will help bring understanding to those books. I was surprised though by who was uneasy with ANKoChristianity. Yet, as I read their thoughts I could see that these are not the typical, “Brian is a heretic” attacks, but more points of minor disagreement. Though, that is not always the case as some view that Brian may have gone off the rails a bit.
I see that I really could not find much I disagreed with. I would have to really go back and dig into the book again to find something I might disagree with. I might not have phrased something the exact same way, yet as in the case of homosexuality, if someone harps on his view without acknowledging that he also is speaking of a broader sense of sexual purity (of which even the heterosexual Christian community has some major ethical failures in) I would say that person missed the point and would question if their assessment of what Brian stated was accurately being portrayed. Again, I am not saying the things Brian is stating is easy to grasp or envision and I totally understand why those who are uncomfortable will be so. However, who ever said we should be comfortable as believers in Jesus?
Wednesday, February 10, 2010
A Sermon for Discernment Folks... and for the rest of us also.
Conflict Resolution from Northland Church on Vimeo.
Thanks to Brian McLaren for pointing this out on his blog.
Wednesday, January 20, 2010
The ooze.com Brian McLaren and Spencer Burke
I should be getting the book soon... I hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiAiFt_dLFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiAiFt_dLFk
Monday, June 08, 2009
From Eternity to Here by Frank Viola
From Eternity to Here by Frank Viola
Once again I get the privilege to review a book. This book was originally published as God’s Ultimate Passion but has been revamped into a very readable book. I really enjoyed the original so it was interesting to see the updated version.
The book is actually three volumes in one broken up into different themes. The first is the Bride of Christ which is a wonderful walk through creation and the relationship of Adam and Eve. Frank Viola brings out nuances that I believe many miss as they simply read though the narrative. Frank Viola points out how the original bride Eve is the prototype of another Bride, the Church.
Frank then begins the second section where the Homeless God is on a quest to make a new home for Himself. The narrative takes one from Genesis through Revelation where he shows God’s intention was to have a New Home in those who believe in Him through Jesus.
The Third Section brings us to The Family, or Body what we are becoming as believers in Jesus. God seeks to make each person who comes to Him in faith through Jesus a New Creation of His passion and expression of His Glory.
If you are in a book store and have a few minutes, I suggest reading the last bit which I think is one of the most important parts of the book, Frank Viola’s micro-biography. It is a short read yet in it one will find Frank Viola’s walk through various movements of the church and what he gained through them… and what he found was lacking in them. To me this gives the read understanding where Frank is coming from and in a sense where one will go as they read the book. It is a bit funny that I am saying to read the end of the book to get the rest of the book, yet if one does take the time I will guarantee they will be buying the book to see how Frank puts all this together.
On a personal note, I enjoyed that Frank quoted both Brian McLaren and Major Ian Thomas which was fascinating to see the two fit together as I have seen they do. This book was to me a wonderful read. In a sense I feel that where I am on my own journey is where many are going and Frank Viola is going. To me the core of both Brian McLaren and Major Ian Thomas as well as Frank Viola’s book is Grace. To gain more insight into the great and wonderful grace of God to me will aid anyone who believes in Jesus.
I highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to dig deeper into who you are in Christ Jesus. This is one author I will be reading more from.
Once again I get the privilege to review a book. This book was originally published as God’s Ultimate Passion but has been revamped into a very readable book. I really enjoyed the original so it was interesting to see the updated version.
The book is actually three volumes in one broken up into different themes. The first is the Bride of Christ which is a wonderful walk through creation and the relationship of Adam and Eve. Frank Viola brings out nuances that I believe many miss as they simply read though the narrative. Frank Viola points out how the original bride Eve is the prototype of another Bride, the Church.
Frank then begins the second section where the Homeless God is on a quest to make a new home for Himself. The narrative takes one from Genesis through Revelation where he shows God’s intention was to have a New Home in those who believe in Him through Jesus.
The Third Section brings us to The Family, or Body what we are becoming as believers in Jesus. God seeks to make each person who comes to Him in faith through Jesus a New Creation of His passion and expression of His Glory.
If you are in a book store and have a few minutes, I suggest reading the last bit which I think is one of the most important parts of the book, Frank Viola’s micro-biography. It is a short read yet in it one will find Frank Viola’s walk through various movements of the church and what he gained through them… and what he found was lacking in them. To me this gives the read understanding where Frank is coming from and in a sense where one will go as they read the book. It is a bit funny that I am saying to read the end of the book to get the rest of the book, yet if one does take the time I will guarantee they will be buying the book to see how Frank puts all this together.
On a personal note, I enjoyed that Frank quoted both Brian McLaren and Major Ian Thomas which was fascinating to see the two fit together as I have seen they do. This book was to me a wonderful read. In a sense I feel that where I am on my own journey is where many are going and Frank Viola is going. To me the core of both Brian McLaren and Major Ian Thomas as well as Frank Viola’s book is Grace. To gain more insight into the great and wonderful grace of God to me will aid anyone who believes in Jesus.
I highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to dig deeper into who you are in Christ Jesus. This is one author I will be reading more from.
I am having the privilege to be part of a circuit of Blogger who are reviewing From Eternity to Here. If you want to read what others are saying here is a list. Many may even have interview questions.
s 
Sunday, May 04, 2008
Happy Birthday!
We all know Brian McLaren reads my blog for inspiration.... (J/k)
So... HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRIAN!
iggy
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
Just to be super clear ... YES! I believe in life after death!
Just to be super clear ... YES! I believe in life after death!
I have not read the book "Everything Must Change", so I will not be so foolish as some to comment on a book I have nto read. Yet I have read many of Brian’s other books and listen to hours of lectures and on and on. Much I hear critics say about Brian I have not seen or heard from him. Recently a friend pointed to an article that was a bit disturbing as it was hard to understand what Brian was stating.
The first link was one I was glad to read as it seemed to clear up some things people have said against Brian. I think that most the critics of McLaren do not understand that other views and interpretations are out there about books like The Revelation. It seems that if one cannot grasp that even some interpretations that are considered the “most biblical” (as well as some doctrines” are relatively new in their development and often are based on summations of creeds and commentaries as well as traditions passed on by men. (Not to be confused with the traditions and teachings passed on by the Apostles.)
I do not recommend blindly trusting or believing anyone. Personally there are some political views I may differ from Brian and even some theological views. I hold that though the Revelation is apocalyptical it is also prophetic as it states it is.(“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy,” Rev 1:3) I also read it as it states, “v19. "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” I see that though as some see all has already happened, one thing remains, the Return of Jesus as the book states He will. (I do not see the day of Pentecost as the return of Jesus as it is evident in scripture that even after that day the Apostles looked forward to a literal day of Jesus’ return). I see that as in the OT at times there is a “Near/Far” theme. The example is that of the young girl (virgin) who is prophesied to give birth Isaiah (7:14) which is fulfilled in (2 Kings 16:9.) (I will not indulge in the “virgin” debate that claims that Matt was wrong and misused this “prophecy” I simply see that Matthew knew as most do, that a young girl most likely is a virgin…)
Being that Isaiah 7:14 is fulfilled, yet seems to still give more of a promise to be fully fulfilled later I see that this near far theme is carried out through out the bible. Though I see that almost every thing was fulfilled as Jesus stated it would be in that “generation” by 70AD, (Matthew 24:34) definitely gives a problem to those who only hold to the “future” view of Revelation as it then would make Jesus a liar!
Again, use wisdom and trust in the leading of the Holy Spirit. I found more just reading Revelation that lead me out of the “rapture” view. The deeper I looked at the scriptures that supposedly taught this view the less I saw it. (Though if pressed to have to believe the Rapture, I would be mid trib).
I see that we have a continuation of now until the New Creation comes. This earth and heaven are of the fallen creation. I do not subscribe to the “burn it all” idea, though I see that there will be a major meltdown to come… I see that as a purification of sin. The way I explain it is that God is not destroying this creation in the sense of annihilation as some teach. I see that as I will die and be raised again at the resurrection of the dead I will then be clothed in the imperishable and clothed in immortality. I will still be me. Likewise I see that this creation will rise as such and also be restored but even better… or as Jesus stated, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10) I see that the Life is in the Son and in that we will rise to New Life in the New Creation as New created beings. The New Heavens and New Earth will be this one but in a much greater Glory. This is not denying that God will do some major things in the end of days rather it is fully acknowledging that there may be some terrible days ahead as God brings the two sided sword of justice. One side to set things right the other to punish those who have done wrong.
We must trust God first and foremost. Especially in that He knows His Word better than anyone. He promises to direct our path which to me means that as we read, there may be paths in the scripture we will never understand. It may be that we are not ready. Believe that God will teach you what He wants you to know. Often I have found God has different priorities than I do in what I think needs to be fixed in me. One point was that I was frustrated with a bad habit of swearing. I could control it most the time, yet I was shocked at times of what would flow out of my mouth! I would further feel condemned by it as I would read that fresh and salt water cannot flow from the same well… Yet, God dealt with me over my angry spirit. In that I found more control as he released me from the things that I would be angry about. (Rather God gave me tools to release anger before it worked its way in me too deeply).
Trust in Gods priorities.
Be blessed,
iggy
I have not read the book "Everything Must Change", so I will not be so foolish as some to comment on a book I have nto read. Yet I have read many of Brian’s other books and listen to hours of lectures and on and on. Much I hear critics say about Brian I have not seen or heard from him. Recently a friend pointed to an article that was a bit disturbing as it was hard to understand what Brian was stating.
The first link was one I was glad to read as it seemed to clear up some things people have said against Brian. I think that most the critics of McLaren do not understand that other views and interpretations are out there about books like The Revelation. It seems that if one cannot grasp that even some interpretations that are considered the “most biblical” (as well as some doctrines” are relatively new in their development and often are based on summations of creeds and commentaries as well as traditions passed on by men. (Not to be confused with the traditions and teachings passed on by the Apostles.)
I do not recommend blindly trusting or believing anyone. Personally there are some political views I may differ from Brian and even some theological views. I hold that though the Revelation is apocalyptical it is also prophetic as it states it is.(“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy,” Rev 1:3) I also read it as it states, “v19. "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” I see that though as some see all has already happened, one thing remains, the Return of Jesus as the book states He will. (I do not see the day of Pentecost as the return of Jesus as it is evident in scripture that even after that day the Apostles looked forward to a literal day of Jesus’ return). I see that as in the OT at times there is a “Near/Far” theme. The example is that of the young girl (virgin) who is prophesied to give birth Isaiah (7:14) which is fulfilled in (2 Kings 16:9.) (I will not indulge in the “virgin” debate that claims that Matt was wrong and misused this “prophecy” I simply see that Matthew knew as most do, that a young girl most likely is a virgin…)
Being that Isaiah 7:14 is fulfilled, yet seems to still give more of a promise to be fully fulfilled later I see that this near far theme is carried out through out the bible. Though I see that almost every thing was fulfilled as Jesus stated it would be in that “generation” by 70AD, (Matthew 24:34) definitely gives a problem to those who only hold to the “future” view of Revelation as it then would make Jesus a liar!
Again, use wisdom and trust in the leading of the Holy Spirit. I found more just reading Revelation that lead me out of the “rapture” view. The deeper I looked at the scriptures that supposedly taught this view the less I saw it. (Though if pressed to have to believe the Rapture, I would be mid trib).
I see that we have a continuation of now until the New Creation comes. This earth and heaven are of the fallen creation. I do not subscribe to the “burn it all” idea, though I see that there will be a major meltdown to come… I see that as a purification of sin. The way I explain it is that God is not destroying this creation in the sense of annihilation as some teach. I see that as I will die and be raised again at the resurrection of the dead I will then be clothed in the imperishable and clothed in immortality. I will still be me. Likewise I see that this creation will rise as such and also be restored but even better… or as Jesus stated, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10) I see that the Life is in the Son and in that we will rise to New Life in the New Creation as New created beings. The New Heavens and New Earth will be this one but in a much greater Glory. This is not denying that God will do some major things in the end of days rather it is fully acknowledging that there may be some terrible days ahead as God brings the two sided sword of justice. One side to set things right the other to punish those who have done wrong.
We must trust God first and foremost. Especially in that He knows His Word better than anyone. He promises to direct our path which to me means that as we read, there may be paths in the scripture we will never understand. It may be that we are not ready. Believe that God will teach you what He wants you to know. Often I have found God has different priorities than I do in what I think needs to be fixed in me. One point was that I was frustrated with a bad habit of swearing. I could control it most the time, yet I was shocked at times of what would flow out of my mouth! I would further feel condemned by it as I would read that fresh and salt water cannot flow from the same well… Yet, God dealt with me over my angry spirit. In that I found more control as he released me from the things that I would be angry about. (Rather God gave me tools to release anger before it worked its way in me too deeply).
Trust in Gods priorities.
Be blessed,
iggy
Monday, April 07, 2008
Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Brian McLaren and Tony Campolo speak about... HELL
Here is a great article which Brian McLaren and Tony Campolo speak on hell.
Some interesting points.
Brian, in your book, The Last Word and the Word After That, you focus heavily on “deconstructing” the evangelical view of hell. Some critics think your deconstruction has moved to the point of your embracing a “universalist” position. Are you a Universalist?McLaren: No, I am not embracing a traditional universalist position, but I am trying to raise the question, When God created the universe, did he have two purposes in mind—one being to create some people who would forever enjoy blessing and mercy, and another to create a group who would forever suffer torment, torture, and punishment? What is our view of God? A God who plans torture? A God who has an essential, eternal quality of hatred? Is God love, or is God love and hate?Tony Campolo: ....There’s no sense of justice found in universalism. If everybody ends up in the same place no matter what they choose, there is no justice. On the other hand, grace says we don’t get justice in the end. So we’ve got both of those truths in tension.
be blessed,
iggy
Sunday, January 13, 2008
UnChristian
UnChristianI received a copy of the book by Dave Kinnaman and Gabe Lyons a while ago and was pretty excited to read it. I am sometimes a sucker for data and graphs and such as I expected from a book by the Barna research group.
As I read through it though, it seemed as if it was old material. What I mean is this is the data to back up what many of us have already been stating and have witnessed.
The “Christian” Church has become in many ways unchristian.
Now, what does that mean? It does not mean we all have forsaken doctrines and such, rather it means that though we still hold many things that are true and of great value, somehow we have given off some very unchristian messages.
We are perceived by people as:
Anti homosexual
Judgmental
Hypocritical
Sheltered
Too political
Too focused on getting people saved
Now on the surface each of these may not sound that bad to some. Yet, remember this is what people think of “Christians”. My question is, when asked, this is their reply instead of “People that love Jesus and love others.”
Are we just a people that hate gays? Is that what some view sums up being a Christian? I hope not. Yet it does seem that many of us are missing the boat.
Are we to be known for what we are against or Who we are for?
It was a hard read as at times I wanted to yell, “THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT!”
Funny thing is that I read another review where the author stated the real issue was that the “Emergents” were corrupting the church… I guess they missed the chapter on judgmentalism…
I recommend the book. It has in it some quite differing viewpoints on how and what we need to do to change others perceptions of Christians… like Brian McLaren and Charles Colson which some might say are polar opposites so it should appeal to a wide variety of people. Other contributors included are Rick Warren, Jim Wallis, Chris Seay, John Stott and a few others.
For more info on the book, you can check out their website.
To hear an interview with one of the authors check out the Steve Brown Etc. show.
Wednesday, December 05, 2007
An Open Letter to Matt Slick
Matt,
I wanted to thank you for having Doug Pagitt on. I am also part of the "emerging church". Though I am not a "member" of emergent, I have seen much value in the things they discuss. I see that they are especially of value in the area of Christoplatonism.
I wanted to also thank you for not being rude. So often these type of interviews are reduced to just that. I was a bit worried though with the opening. =) You might also find it interesting that I really appreciate Doug yet do not agree with him on all points... especially in the area of "eternal security". Yet, there are orthodox people on both sides of that issue.
In the ec I hope you realize that there is much room in our conversation. As you might have already noticed there are some that view women pastors are fine and some like Mark Driscoll (who some of us no longer see as "emerging"), who do not see that is fine. Yet, within the "movement" (which is still an in-house debate whether to call it that or if it is one) we are open to challenging one another... with respect.
In regards to Karen Ward, I am not that read up on her myself. She may be considered a "leader" but there are some that consider ME that also... which I have to chuckle over as I am not that much of one if I am! LOL!
Yet, in this case you were unkind and did admit it to Doug. I think you should apologize.
Now, having said that, I agree with you that if she did state that it was OK to not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus then she is in error... and most other emerging/emergent I have run into would not agree with her at all.
Now, how we work though is if she is in error, and this is brought to the table of discussion so to say, she would be challenged by the rest of us. Again, mutual respect is help as one of the highest of values as we view commonly that God places high value on all humans be they believer or not. He sent His Son to die for us so we see that as one of the greatest values.
In this type of discussion we will firmly debate with one another. If one cannot "back their view" biblically... then we will agree to place in the secondary position of "is this an essential".
In this iron sharpens iron... and I am sure Doug will talk with Karen and if it is as you state will discuss this.
As far as your ministry, I agree that you are in a very interesting place. To look for "orthodoxy" and to find whether one is a heretic or not would be tough to do. Yet, still if a person be a Mormon or JW, I would still place love in front of all things as I approached them. Mostly I would allow God to work as I did converse with them. I would challenge their view but not deride the person.
Walter Martin, who I understand mentored you, (unlike that other guy who stated he was mentored by Walter as he listened to a bunch of tapes) stated that this was very important to do... to not put down their leaders or attack their person... but focus solely on their doctrines.
As far as how this is done, I think it depends on the person. I have had to confront unbelievers who were sick from drinking binges... and after the second or third time I ran them to the emergency room I would be straight forward and tell them they needed help... and I would not let them get away with saying they had a "disease". As, I am diabetic and have an actual disease I see that someone who places a substance purposely in their body, as in the case of alcohol is a drunk, not "sick" in the same way as someone with cancer. They need help but they do need to be confronted with their "sin" that is killing them. Cancer never comes in a glass nor did my diabetes. (I understand that this is a bit out of the AA understanding, but the bible calls a drunk a drunk) This may sound harsh but I am meaning that I have built a bit of a relationship... and in that can give that person my honest and blunt opinion. Also, I see that this person is dying and in that do not care to waste much time "just to be nice" though I do not want to be unkind.
I think that Doug was very much in your face, yet you could sense he cared and still had genuine love for you as you talked... I see that this is the way you need to confront others also.
Over all I wanted to thank you as I did. I have been attacked by some very harshly and called an apostate and told I am not saved, just becuase I have a link to Brian McLaren on my website... that is a bit silly as I also have Dr. J Vernon McGee and Chuck Missler. They seemed to not care in my confession of faith in Jesus but only that they hate those they see outside their own narrow belief and doctrine... in fact many of these get confused when I state things like "having a relationship with Jesus" or "must recieve the Life of Christ" which seems to me the most crucial of beliefs one should have as a believer in Jesus.
I wanted to recommend two other "emerging" folk.
Andrew Jones is a great guy and I think you would enjoy interviewing him. He is also known as the Tall Skinny Kiwi. I would also recommend Scot McKnight who is a professor and author and considered to be one of the finest up and coming theologians out there today. His blog is called Jesus Creed like his book of hte same name. Allen Roxburgh of ALLELON would be another person as he is very close to Brian McLaren.
Be blessed,
iggy
Sunday, November 18, 2007
Around the blogosphere...
Under two birds with one stone:
Robbymac tells us Emerging Grace has moved to wordpress and is now Kingdom Grace, so you will need to update your links. (I am still here at blogger after many experiments... I wonder if I will be the last hold out!)
Under our buy one you get two sale:
Fellow blogger user and Vineyard guy, (not to mention one of my favorite Calvinists... and I am not kidding), Rick Ianniello has two posts one on prophecy is not preaching and in the other he goes retro cool on us with Larry Norman.
More on preaching department:
Out of Ur has an interesting article if you preach with Preaching to Express, not Impress.
Under the I have not read that one yet... but he has department:
Scott at Theopraxis has an article on Brian McLaren's book Everything Must Change and shares his thoughts on it.
Under the personal thoughts and open to discussion department:
Dan Kimball has an post where he talks on his view of hell a bit. And I agree that we should talk a bit more about it.
Robbymac tells us Emerging Grace has moved to wordpress and is now Kingdom Grace, so you will need to update your links. (I am still here at blogger after many experiments... I wonder if I will be the last hold out!)
Under our buy one you get two sale:
Fellow blogger user and Vineyard guy, (not to mention one of my favorite Calvinists... and I am not kidding), Rick Ianniello has two posts one on prophecy is not preaching and in the other he goes retro cool on us with Larry Norman.
More on preaching department:
Out of Ur has an interesting article if you preach with Preaching to Express, not Impress.
Under the I have not read that one yet... but he has department:
Scott at Theopraxis has an article on Brian McLaren's book Everything Must Change and shares his thoughts on it.
Under the personal thoughts and open to discussion department:
Dan Kimball has an post where he talks on his view of hell a bit. And I agree that we should talk a bit more about it.
Oh that picture is by Matthew Hurst who has been mapping the blogosphere... I thought it was pretty cool.
Be blessed,
iggy
Tuesday, October 09, 2007
Hackman the Blogger.
I kept getting these hits from http://www.mrhackman.blogspot.com/ and every time I go there I read something I like. So...
Here are a couple things I have read there.
If you have not heard of "the wink" that's OK... it was started by Doug Padgitt as a rebuttal to the accusations tossed at him. Hackman's Musings does a great job at covering the debate over this... (stupid*) situation.
*OK stupid in the way that the MacArthur camp has declared war on their brothers in Christ and are acting very childish in how they are doing it. I see that someone like Doug can only take so much of the lies and slander, as we cannot all be a graceful as Brian McLaren is with his critics.
Hackman also does a great post on the misuse of scripture.
I will also as I have time add his blog to my blog-roll. He has a great blog and is a great read... be sure to sign this "Free Burma" petition and the one below.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Here are a couple things I have read there.
If you have not heard of "the wink" that's OK... it was started by Doug Padgitt as a rebuttal to the accusations tossed at him. Hackman's Musings does a great job at covering the debate over this... (stupid*) situation.
*OK stupid in the way that the MacArthur camp has declared war on their brothers in Christ and are acting very childish in how they are doing it. I see that someone like Doug can only take so much of the lies and slander, as we cannot all be a graceful as Brian McLaren is with his critics.
Hackman also does a great post on the misuse of scripture.
I will also as I have time add his blog to my blog-roll. He has a great blog and is a great read... be sure to sign this "Free Burma" petition and the one below.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Thursday, September 13, 2007
Of respect and gentleness
Normally I might have had about 5 or 6 posts out this week... yet for some reason I am just not that motivated.
Partly there are some things at work... I won't go into detail but the stress level has risen a bit. I also have been feeling better but in that I am doing more outside thing. Being on that statin drug limited me as far as what i could or felt able to do... Most often work drained me and I would on occasion go for a walk, but mostly I just felt "tired".
The other thing is I am taking some time as to a direction... I was going to pop off a couple of "John MacArthur" posts, but they seems lame and quite frankly John MacArthur has become a bit boring. Also, I think that there is not much more to say. I do not agree with "Lordship Salvation" nor do I agree that one must commit to all the things John states one does to be saved... as that is "works" plain and simple... I see that if one accepts Jesus for Who He is... one will grow in their faith and realize what and who Jesus is. Noted that most Lordship Salvation people miss that all will call Jesus Lord one day... but not all will be saved in their acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. Some will bend that knee and call Him Lord and still enter the Lake of Fire.
NOW, I have had some fun at CRN.info as they have some really good posts up now... I would at least take a look at this weeks worth of post... I have done a lot of comments there... enough to probably have posted a good dozen times here.
Yet, still I am truly wanting to move in a different direction. Sparing with someone over theology is fun, but if the other is more resentful toward you and has little to no respect, it gets a bit tiresome to continue a dialog that seems to only entrench oneself further in one own position.
I will not state the name, but I have also been emailing back and forth with a writer from CRN who thinks I have been using Ken Silva as a punching bag at CRN.info... I noted that it goes like this...
I ask Ken a question concerning he accusation against me or that he set up in an article... Ken responds with mockery or a put down... I do something like a Jujitsu move using Ken's own momentum and then he just gets nastier.
But, you see the guy missed that Ken started the punch with accusation that have nothing behind them...
I have asked for direct quotes concerning the accusations against people like Brian McLaren...
1. Where has he stated he does not believe in the biblical "Hell"?
2. Where has he stated he is a "universalist"?
3.Where has he stated that to be gay is OK and not a sin?
What I am usually given, if given anything is a video that states we need to have compassion on the lost... which includes gay people... but no where does Brian condone sin.
I also asked for quotes about other accusations.
1. Give me a direct quote where Tony Jones or anyone at Emergent Village denies "biblical" truth.
2. Show me a direct quote that anyone at emergent village denies the "authority" of scripture.
Now, the inerrancy question is not about same issue that most "fundamentalist" think... as they have a definition that is much different from those who originally stated the definition was. And yes, Spencer Burke has stated he is a universalist... but most miss that there is a twist... he believes in hell... so, all emergents deny hell except Spencer... LOL!
It is a crazy world.
In this conversation we acknowledge no one has it all together or has all the answers. Theology should not just be about sword rattling, but it can also be fun. If we cannot talk to each other, then we miss out that someone might have a piece that we needed that can help our understanding of our faith in God. We will and should not all agree... and yes some are or have gone off the tracks, yet i see that in even the fundamentalist who believes KJVonly... or that tongue have ended... or that prophecy has ended... (as in the case of Frank Turk at teampyro, who seems to like to defend the self proclaimed last day prophet Ken Silva... go figure that one out).
This is a fascinating time and really a hard time. Many miss that schools do not teach "biblical" ideas... that God is not a given in most homes and that the American dream has replace Christian values. Yet, somehow people expect that others just understand the Christian world view... but you see, the world is watching us... and they are wiser that we give them credit. Even Jesus pointed that out in the parable of the shrewd manager in Luke 16.
When we do not take time to listen and already assume we have the answer I see we lose out at the chance that God will do something even greater. It is not wrong to be able to give an answer... but the last part of the oft quoted verse... is with gentleness and kindness... here see what I mean.
1 Peter 3: 15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
When we lose sight of gentleness and respect truly we must then rationalize things like our judgmentalism... and we lose even more as we give ground for others to speak maliciously against us and against Jesus.
I know I am guilty of this... so no need to write and tell me. Yet, I always look for any opportunity to move toward reconciliation and that one can be restored. I may rag on Ken Silva, but I earnestly seek that he can see the harm he has done and that his ministry can also focus on not just the negative, but give praise to those who show that they are orthodox and not just run them down more. I pray that Ken also gives a door to reconciliation and restoration of the brothers he sees as "in sin" and more I pray that humility will allow Ken to go to even greater heights in his ministry.
So, I guess this post is about gentleness and respect for others. Give an answer... but realize that even if you can answer all the questions a person has... the only real answer is Jesus and that is truly all we have to give anyone.
Again, I am far from the target... but that is why I turned to Jesus in the first place.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Partly there are some things at work... I won't go into detail but the stress level has risen a bit. I also have been feeling better but in that I am doing more outside thing. Being on that statin drug limited me as far as what i could or felt able to do... Most often work drained me and I would on occasion go for a walk, but mostly I just felt "tired".
The other thing is I am taking some time as to a direction... I was going to pop off a couple of "John MacArthur" posts, but they seems lame and quite frankly John MacArthur has become a bit boring. Also, I think that there is not much more to say. I do not agree with "Lordship Salvation" nor do I agree that one must commit to all the things John states one does to be saved... as that is "works" plain and simple... I see that if one accepts Jesus for Who He is... one will grow in their faith and realize what and who Jesus is. Noted that most Lordship Salvation people miss that all will call Jesus Lord one day... but not all will be saved in their acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. Some will bend that knee and call Him Lord and still enter the Lake of Fire.
NOW, I have had some fun at CRN.info as they have some really good posts up now... I would at least take a look at this weeks worth of post... I have done a lot of comments there... enough to probably have posted a good dozen times here.
Yet, still I am truly wanting to move in a different direction. Sparing with someone over theology is fun, but if the other is more resentful toward you and has little to no respect, it gets a bit tiresome to continue a dialog that seems to only entrench oneself further in one own position.
I will not state the name, but I have also been emailing back and forth with a writer from CRN who thinks I have been using Ken Silva as a punching bag at CRN.info... I noted that it goes like this...
I ask Ken a question concerning he accusation against me or that he set up in an article... Ken responds with mockery or a put down... I do something like a Jujitsu move using Ken's own momentum and then he just gets nastier.
But, you see the guy missed that Ken started the punch with accusation that have nothing behind them...
I have asked for direct quotes concerning the accusations against people like Brian McLaren...
1. Where has he stated he does not believe in the biblical "Hell"?
2. Where has he stated he is a "universalist"?
3.Where has he stated that to be gay is OK and not a sin?
What I am usually given, if given anything is a video that states we need to have compassion on the lost... which includes gay people... but no where does Brian condone sin.
I also asked for quotes about other accusations.
1. Give me a direct quote where Tony Jones or anyone at Emergent Village denies "biblical" truth.
2. Show me a direct quote that anyone at emergent village denies the "authority" of scripture.
Now, the inerrancy question is not about same issue that most "fundamentalist" think... as they have a definition that is much different from those who originally stated the definition was. And yes, Spencer Burke has stated he is a universalist... but most miss that there is a twist... he believes in hell... so, all emergents deny hell except Spencer... LOL!
It is a crazy world.
In this conversation we acknowledge no one has it all together or has all the answers. Theology should not just be about sword rattling, but it can also be fun. If we cannot talk to each other, then we miss out that someone might have a piece that we needed that can help our understanding of our faith in God. We will and should not all agree... and yes some are or have gone off the tracks, yet i see that in even the fundamentalist who believes KJVonly... or that tongue have ended... or that prophecy has ended... (as in the case of Frank Turk at teampyro, who seems to like to defend the self proclaimed last day prophet Ken Silva... go figure that one out).
This is a fascinating time and really a hard time. Many miss that schools do not teach "biblical" ideas... that God is not a given in most homes and that the American dream has replace Christian values. Yet, somehow people expect that others just understand the Christian world view... but you see, the world is watching us... and they are wiser that we give them credit. Even Jesus pointed that out in the parable of the shrewd manager in Luke 16.
When we do not take time to listen and already assume we have the answer I see we lose out at the chance that God will do something even greater. It is not wrong to be able to give an answer... but the last part of the oft quoted verse... is with gentleness and kindness... here see what I mean.
1 Peter 3: 15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
When we lose sight of gentleness and respect truly we must then rationalize things like our judgmentalism... and we lose even more as we give ground for others to speak maliciously against us and against Jesus.
I know I am guilty of this... so no need to write and tell me. Yet, I always look for any opportunity to move toward reconciliation and that one can be restored. I may rag on Ken Silva, but I earnestly seek that he can see the harm he has done and that his ministry can also focus on not just the negative, but give praise to those who show that they are orthodox and not just run them down more. I pray that Ken also gives a door to reconciliation and restoration of the brothers he sees as "in sin" and more I pray that humility will allow Ken to go to even greater heights in his ministry.
So, I guess this post is about gentleness and respect for others. Give an answer... but realize that even if you can answer all the questions a person has... the only real answer is Jesus and that is truly all we have to give anyone.
Again, I am far from the target... but that is why I turned to Jesus in the first place.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Wednesday, August 01, 2007
The Wittenburg Door Interview: Brian McLaren
The Wittenburg Door Interview
Brian McLaren
By Becky Garrison
May/June 2007
He's controversial. He's heralded by some and accused of being apostate by others. Brian McLaren is unapologetic. He says he believes in the life, death on the Cross, and triumphant resurrection of Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, this pastor, author, speaker, and networker is listed as one of America's 25 most influential evangelicals by Time magazine. McLaren got there primarily on the strength of more than a dozen challenging (some would say danged near heretical) books that have resonated with millions of readers, including The Secret Message of Jesus: Uncovering the Truth That Could Change Everything; A Generous Orthodoxy, The Last Word and the Word After That: Faith Doubt and a New Kind of Christianity; A New Kind of Christian: A Tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey; A Search for What is Real: Finding Faith and others.
Sinner, seeker, saint? One interview won't decide it. But here are Brian's words. From here, it's up to you. (Log on to www.brianmclaren.net for all things Brian.)
WITTENBURG DOOR: First off, how would you respond to those who say that you're a proponent of a theology that has abandoned the cross?
BRIAN MCLAREN: I can't imagine why anyone would say I have abandoned the cross!
DOOR: Some do ...
MCLAREN: Sheesh. I guess this kind of thing would be coming from people who claim that the gospel can be reduced to one theory of atonement.
Read the full article here.
Brian McLaren
By Becky Garrison
May/June 2007
He's controversial. He's heralded by some and accused of being apostate by others. Brian McLaren is unapologetic. He says he believes in the life, death on the Cross, and triumphant resurrection of Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, this pastor, author, speaker, and networker is listed as one of America's 25 most influential evangelicals by Time magazine. McLaren got there primarily on the strength of more than a dozen challenging (some would say danged near heretical) books that have resonated with millions of readers, including The Secret Message of Jesus: Uncovering the Truth That Could Change Everything; A Generous Orthodoxy, The Last Word and the Word After That: Faith Doubt and a New Kind of Christianity; A New Kind of Christian: A Tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey; A Search for What is Real: Finding Faith and others.
Sinner, seeker, saint? One interview won't decide it. But here are Brian's words. From here, it's up to you. (Log on to www.brianmclaren.net for all things Brian.)
WITTENBURG DOOR: First off, how would you respond to those who say that you're a proponent of a theology that has abandoned the cross?
BRIAN MCLAREN: I can't imagine why anyone would say I have abandoned the cross!
DOOR: Some do ...
MCLAREN: Sheesh. I guess this kind of thing would be coming from people who claim that the gospel can be reduced to one theory of atonement.
Read the full article here.
Monday, July 23, 2007
How Right I Am!!!
I accidentally found a great video by Brian McLaren... Where? On CRN...
This post confirms what I have been saying for some time, that the "Truth War" is not about "truth" but about different views of the Kingdom of God.
Yet, as I stated many times here and elsewhere, this is not a war about truth, but about whether Jesus Resurrection brought the Kingdom to earth as in the Lords Pray.
Funny thing, the "editor" seems to be against the Lord's Prayer. He seems to be pointing out that the Kingdom of God is not here... that Jesus death, burial and resurrection were a huge waste of time... and the only reason Jesus died was to get our butts out of hell into heaven.
A version of the Kingdom that Jesus came to bring it... failed so left and will come again as the wrathful and angry God they worship, unless the emergent take over the church and all is lost...
or
A version in which Jesus being the first born of the New Creation ushered in the Kingdom of God, on Earth as it is in Heaven. It is not in it's fullness but it will be soon.
I think the second one seems a bit more biblical... well at least from what the scripture states being true.
So one can believe the truth, enter into God's Kingdom through Jesus Christ... or believe a lie...
Maybe this is a truth war... and the truth is some hate the Kingdom of God so much that they willingly exchange the truth for a lie and worship their own creation of what the bible says.
Beware false teachers.
I think the reason they think Brian McLaren is so dangerous, is that he makes them face what the bible actually teaches.
blessings,
iggy
This post confirms what I have been saying for some time, that the "Truth War" is not about "truth" but about different views of the Kingdom of God.
Yet, as I stated many times here and elsewhere, this is not a war about truth, but about whether Jesus Resurrection brought the Kingdom to earth as in the Lords Pray.
Funny thing, the "editor" seems to be against the Lord's Prayer. He seems to be pointing out that the Kingdom of God is not here... that Jesus death, burial and resurrection were a huge waste of time... and the only reason Jesus died was to get our butts out of hell into heaven.
A version of the Kingdom that Jesus came to bring it... failed so left and will come again as the wrathful and angry God they worship, unless the emergent take over the church and all is lost...
or
A version in which Jesus being the first born of the New Creation ushered in the Kingdom of God, on Earth as it is in Heaven. It is not in it's fullness but it will be soon.
I think the second one seems a bit more biblical... well at least from what the scripture states being true.
So one can believe the truth, enter into God's Kingdom through Jesus Christ... or believe a lie...
Maybe this is a truth war... and the truth is some hate the Kingdom of God so much that they willingly exchange the truth for a lie and worship their own creation of what the bible says.
Beware false teachers.
I think the reason they think Brian McLaren is so dangerous, is that he makes them face what the bible actually teaches.
blessings,
iggy
Sunday, July 22, 2007
What's your theological worldview?
You scored as Emergent/Postmodern, You are Emergent/Postmodern in your theology. You feel alienated from older forms of church, you don't think they connect to modern culture very well. No one knows the whole truth about God, and we have much to learn from each other, and so learning takes place in dialogue. Evangelism should take place in relationships rather than through crusades and altar-calls. People are interested in spirituality and want to ask questions, so the church should help them to do this.
Emergent/Postmodern | 75% | ||
Neo orthodox | 64% | ||
Evangelical Holiness/Wesleyan | 64% | ||
Reformed Evangelical | 54% | ||
Roman Catholic | 50% | ||
Fundamentalist | 50% | ||
Charismatic/Pentecostal | 43% | ||
Classical Liberal | 32% | ||
Modern Liberal | 29% |
What's your theological worldview?
created with QuizFarm.com
I took this test over a year ago... the results are interesting.
I am glad to see I am losing my fundamentalist viewpoint... maybe I can thank them for showing me the error of my ways! ; ) I do think that my "Charismatic/Pentecostal" score a bit low.
Be blessed,
iggy
Sunday, July 01, 2007
More misinformation on the propagation highway: Greg Gilbert versus Brian McLaren
More misinformation on the propagation highway: Greg Gilbert versus Brian McLaren
“…McLaren misses what is perhaps the most astonishing surprise of the New Testament story: that Jesus filled the roles of the Davidic Messiah, the Suffering Servant of Isaiah, and Daniel’s Son of Man, all at the same time! That McLaren does not see this, or at least does not hint at it in his books, is all the more surprising because he is so careful otherwise to situate the story of Jesus in the narrative of the nation of Israel. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah and the Son of Man of Daniel 7 are not insignificant themes in the Old Testament, and neither were they insignificant ideas in the Jewish mind of Jesus’ day. How McLaren could ignore them so completely—not to mention the startling role they play in Jesus’ own self-understanding—is nothing short of a mystery.”
This is just one of the many points of misinformation and redirection. Greg Gilbert actually states that McLaren agrees with things like the atonement… yet twists things around such as in the case of the quote above to mean that McLaren is stating he really does not believe this after all… and that is called propagation and a lie.
What Greg Gilbert is doing is what he is actually saying McLaren has done! He takes what McLaren states then acknowledges it, then negates it.
And what Greg Gilbert ends up with is… a gospel “of "getting your butt into heaven,"… and a focus on the eternal the leaves us with nothing here and now of Jesus. And that is the point McLaren is making. Gilberts in this article confirms what McLaren is saying is true!
Now, anyone who has actually bothered to read Brian McLaren’s books will see that McLaren believes in an eternal life! Much of the books I have read states that and many of the lectures I have heard by him are nothing but mini N. T. Wright summaries… AND NO ONE WILL SAY N.T.WRIGHT DOES NOT BELIEVE IN AN AFTERLIFE!
So, once again we have people who admit McLaren is orthodox… and teaches the very things that many say he does nto… and in this case after doing that… Gilbert affirms what McLaren has set out.
I wonder why the focus is that one must try so hard as to redirect us from things that Jesus taught us to do NOW such as loving our enemies… as why would we need to if all our focus is on the eternal and not NOW.
So, as far as fairness, this may be one of the fluffiest propagation pieces I have read… but as far as grasping anything that is actually taught by Brian McLaren… it is a big miss…
If it was not so sad that someone has to write lies about another… it would be hilarious.
Be Blessed,
iggy
“…McLaren misses what is perhaps the most astonishing surprise of the New Testament story: that Jesus filled the roles of the Davidic Messiah, the Suffering Servant of Isaiah, and Daniel’s Son of Man, all at the same time! That McLaren does not see this, or at least does not hint at it in his books, is all the more surprising because he is so careful otherwise to situate the story of Jesus in the narrative of the nation of Israel. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah and the Son of Man of Daniel 7 are not insignificant themes in the Old Testament, and neither were they insignificant ideas in the Jewish mind of Jesus’ day. How McLaren could ignore them so completely—not to mention the startling role they play in Jesus’ own self-understanding—is nothing short of a mystery.”
This is just one of the many points of misinformation and redirection. Greg Gilbert actually states that McLaren agrees with things like the atonement… yet twists things around such as in the case of the quote above to mean that McLaren is stating he really does not believe this after all… and that is called propagation and a lie.
What Greg Gilbert is doing is what he is actually saying McLaren has done! He takes what McLaren states then acknowledges it, then negates it.
And what Greg Gilbert ends up with is… a gospel “of "getting your butt into heaven,"… and a focus on the eternal the leaves us with nothing here and now of Jesus. And that is the point McLaren is making. Gilberts in this article confirms what McLaren is saying is true!
Now, anyone who has actually bothered to read Brian McLaren’s books will see that McLaren believes in an eternal life! Much of the books I have read states that and many of the lectures I have heard by him are nothing but mini N. T. Wright summaries… AND NO ONE WILL SAY N.T.WRIGHT DOES NOT BELIEVE IN AN AFTERLIFE!
So, once again we have people who admit McLaren is orthodox… and teaches the very things that many say he does nto… and in this case after doing that… Gilbert affirms what McLaren has set out.
I wonder why the focus is that one must try so hard as to redirect us from things that Jesus taught us to do NOW such as loving our enemies… as why would we need to if all our focus is on the eternal and not NOW.
So, as far as fairness, this may be one of the fluffiest propagation pieces I have read… but as far as grasping anything that is actually taught by Brian McLaren… it is a big miss…
If it was not so sad that someone has to write lies about another… it would be hilarious.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Monday, April 02, 2007
Close your eyes if you want to...
Close your eyes if you want to...
"How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur?
Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?"
So, ignore this transition if you want to, and treat it like a phase if you want to. I think you'll miss one of the most exciting times in anyone's memory.
Here's how I think about it: Imagine yourself a Roman Catholic monk in say 1510, in Germany or Austria or England or Switzerland. The world is about to change. The institutions and theologies that have sustained and nourished your faith are about to be challenged. Jon Huss has already been burned at the stake, and a fellow named Martin Luther is beginning to think some dangerous thoughts. Your institutions are bastardizing themselves (if not through indulgences, then through TV/radio evangelists, the religious right, and other fear-based fundraising machines). How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur? Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?
Or maybe simply observe it, uninvolved? Critique it, feeling smug, as if only "they" are in danger, and not also "us"? Tame it, trying to neuter it and co- opt it into a gentle, incremental evolution (and so preserve our modern structures, etc.) instead of a radical, energetic innovation? Or help lead it, passionate, involved?
Something to think about.
You can guess where my heart is." Brian Mclaren
Now re-read the post before this by Spurgeon.
Blessings,
iggy
"How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur?
Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?"
So, ignore this transition if you want to, and treat it like a phase if you want to. I think you'll miss one of the most exciting times in anyone's memory.
Here's how I think about it: Imagine yourself a Roman Catholic monk in say 1510, in Germany or Austria or England or Switzerland. The world is about to change. The institutions and theologies that have sustained and nourished your faith are about to be challenged. Jon Huss has already been burned at the stake, and a fellow named Martin Luther is beginning to think some dangerous thoughts. Your institutions are bastardizing themselves (if not through indulgences, then through TV/radio evangelists, the religious right, and other fear-based fundraising machines). How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur? Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?
Or maybe simply observe it, uninvolved? Critique it, feeling smug, as if only "they" are in danger, and not also "us"? Tame it, trying to neuter it and co- opt it into a gentle, incremental evolution (and so preserve our modern structures, etc.) instead of a radical, energetic innovation? Or help lead it, passionate, involved?
Something to think about.
You can guess where my heart is." Brian Mclaren
Now re-read the post before this by Spurgeon.
Blessings,
iggy
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