Logic lessons with Ken Silva... (?????)

At a blog where a person likes to take one sentance and create straw men to attakc people, I had an interesting lesson in logic from Ken Silva...

It starts with a guy called, (sorry if this is offensive, it was his choice of names not mine.) Poop is Emergent.

Poop is Emergent Too said...
Chris L: Driscoll was Catholic by backround...And Pagitt was once a pastor in the Baptist General Conference which is not liberal by most standards...

Also lack of certain trust in Jesus and his word and revelation is not humility, it is foolishness, masqurading as humility.

By your definition it would seem that Jesus was nothing more than an arrogant fool when he claimed "Unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."
February 12, 2008 1:18 PM

iggy said...
Poop,"Also lack of certain trust in Jesus and his word and revelation is not humility, it is foolishness, masqurading as humility."

Yes, we all remember the words of the man asking Jesus to heal his son in Mark 9:23-24 as foolishness...

""`If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes." Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!""

Yes, such a masquerade that man put on...

iggy February 12, 2008 1:26 PM

Ken Silva said...
iggy mocks: "we all remember the words of the man asking Jesus to heal his son in Mark 9:23-24 as foolishness...

"This is the fallacy of the false analogy. P was talking about Doug Pagitt, who is functioning as a Christian pastor (apples).

The man referred to in Mark 9 is still unregenerate and certainly is not expected to be a teacher of God's Word (oranges).

Therefore they cannot be compated in the context of P's comment.
February 12, 2008 1:53 PM

iggy said...
Ken,

So by your infallible logic,

Doug is saved...

He is of the Elect and no one can snatch him out of Jesus' hands... not even you.

thanks! = )

iggy
February 12, 2008 1:57 PM

Ken Silva said...
iggy,1) It isn't my logic.

And 2) I didn't say anything at all about Doug being saved. What I said was he "is functioning as a Christian pastor".

February 12, 2008 2:10 PM

iggy said...
Ken,

Then by your "not your logic" a "Christian" pastor is not "Christian"?

Interesting... so Doug is not saved and is a "Christian" pastor...

I am enjoying this "logic" lesson... or your "not your logic" lesson.

Please enlighten us more. = )

iggy February 12, 2008 2:16 PM

Ken Silva said...

iggy,

I believe you're sharper than this: "a 'Christian' pastor is not 'Christian'?" One can claim to be a Christian, but that doesn't make it so. I certainly wouldn't have called Pagitt as pastor and I don't personally think he is a Christian.

However, it is an incontrovertable fact that Doug Pagitt "is functioning as a Christian pastor."
February 12, 2008 2:32 PM


iggy said...
Ken,

"I certainly wouldn't have called Pagitt as pastor and I don't personally think he is a Christian.

However, it is an incontrovertable fact that Doug Pagitt "is functioning as a Christian pastor.""

So, let's look at your "not my logic" here:

1. You state that Doug is "functioning as a Christian pastor"

2. Yet not all that are "Christian" are Christian becuase YOU personally think Doug is not.

3. But yet the only "incontrovertable" fact you are asserting is that Doug is functioning as a Christian pastor...

So we conclude that if YOU personally do not think one is a Christian, they still can function as a "Christian" pastor though not be a Christian... though you refer to them as a Christian.

So one is a Christian only if you say they are.

I see... so it all depends on YOU and what YOU think...

Got it.

iggy
February 12, 2008 2:48 PM

Ken Silva said...
iggy,

I'm afraid you and I aren't going to get anywhere here so it's best we drop it. In my opinion, to paraphrase a famous saying: "Your reasoning has left the building."
February 12, 2008 3:20 PM

iggy said...
Ken,

I agree, your logical orbit is a bit too small for me.
See ya,

igs
February 12, 2008 3:22 PM

CRN.info and CRN find common ground

Of all to unite for the common good is CRN and CRN.info over Heath Ledger. Chris Rosebrough and Chris Lyons teamed up with this post from Chris R. I know that this sounds a bit like Larknews but it is true. Kudos to Chris R. for taking a stand against hate.

Be blessed,

iggy

Stick it where? Ask Chris Pajak!

Chris Pajak as a real knack with words... he loves to tell others how sinful they are and how "emergents" are going to hell amongst the "nicer" things he states... He also writes for Christian Research Net for Ken Silva.

And in a recent "loving" comment on the topic of reductionism at CRN.info Chris Pajak had this to say!

"At the risk of sounding crudely reductionist; put it where the sun don’t shine. This blog is going to criticize others for sweeping generalizations? I pray for the soon return of the King." ~ Chris Pajak Christian Research Network contributor.

No Chris, you just sound as crude as all those you condemn for not being Christ like...

If you would like to tell Chris how offensive this is... his blog is here...

These are the new holiness police...

Beware!

iggy

OK This guy usually bothers me... but... from poop emerges

This guy usually bothers me but at poop is emergent too he has an interesting take on Ken Silva and Tony Jones.. though I do not agree 100% I see that not all on Ken Silva's side agree with him and his tactics.

Article: Just so we are clear…

be blessed,

iggy

Cool and weird around the web

First the weird... which is also a little disturbing...

Date rape drug found in children's toys... I was going to snope this...

"Scientists say a chemical coating on the beads, when ingested, metabolizes into the so-called date rape drug gamma hydroxy butyrate. When eaten, the compound _ made from common and easily available ingredients _ can induce unconsciousness, seizures, drowsiness, coma and death." Source.





News of the Weird reported this:





As several sightings were made around Washington, D.C., of dragonfly-looking bugs hovering in the air at political events, government agencies were denying that they had released any tiny surveillance robots, according to an October Washington Post investigation. "I look up and I'm like, 'What the hell is that?'" asked a college student at an antiwar rally in Washington. "They looked kind of like dragonflies or little helicopters. But ... those are not insects." Several agencies and private entities admitted to the Post that they were trying to develop such devices, but no one took credit for having them in the air yet. [Washington Post, 10-9-07]

I was skeptical... until I saw this article on the Washington Post site!

I just thought I might beat my friends at the Online Discernment Ministries to the punch on this one and point out it is NOT an emerging church... LOL! This guy needed to make a call and wanted to make it from church... but he was not calling home.

Now the weirdest thing today was that I found I agreed with Ingrid on something!

"Then I get a news story sent me that fundamentalist king pin Dr. Bob Jones III has endorsed the Mormon with pro-gay, pro-abortion leanings. Why?"


And now the cool... David Crowder 24/7 streaming live...

Well, I was a bit bored when I went there but check it out it might be cool when you go!

LOL!

Be Blessed,
iggy

John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?

I read from two different sources what John MacArthur thinks concerning salvation of Arminians... and really I ended up scratching my head... what does he really believe?

"So, they are diametrically opposed. The question comes, “Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?” And I would hate to say they couldn’t be. I really believe that it is possible to be Arminian and to be a Christian…to misunderstand your human capability, to misunderstand the election, to misunderstand the extent of the atonement, even to misunderstand the irresistible nature of God’s saving grace, and even to think you could lose your salvation. But, at the same time--while being confused or ignorant of those things--to know that you’re a sinner and know that the only way of salvation is through Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that someone could be an Arminian and push those points far enough, where they could jeopardize my confidence that they really are a Christian. You could push the point of not being totally depraved far enough where you’re actually being saved by your own works, by your own belief, by your own ingenuity, by your own self-induced faith. And you could get to the point where you could really wonder whether someone understands that it’s all a work of God.
But, I think it would be going too far to say someone who holds an Arminian view, or anyone who holds an Arminian view, is, by virtue of that view, not a Christian. I think there are people who just don’t understand rightly those things, but who know they’re sinners and who cry out in their sin for the Lord to save them. They don’t understand how what they’re doing works together with the great purposes and power of God, and consequently can’t give God fully the glory He deserves for all of that, but they could be genuinely saved, by hoping in Christ and Christ alone." Source

Or this?

"He (Spurgeon) preached that both predestination and (limited) free-will were simultaneously in full force. He believed that in the end that salvation was wholly of God from start to finish, and yet God secures the complete cooperation of our wills in so-doing. He decried both antinomianism and fatalism (only predestination) and Arminianism (only free will) and said that anyone who denied either of these two truths was engaged in heresy.
He openly called both heresy. I tend to agree. I really like what this guy says since I had come to the same conclusions myself.
But he said something that confused me for a long time and said that John Wesley (a famous Arminian) was a man of God, yes he disagreed with him, but he said he had great respect for the man.
The best explanation I can come up for this is that Arminians are confused about how they came to Christ, but their definition of the atonement, and who Christ is is accurate, as is their view of sanctification (no striving by works), so it is possible Biblically to admit that Arminians are our brothers and sisters in Christ. It took me a lot of thought to get here however as at first glance I thought a heretical viewpoint always produces heretics who aren't saved.
The message I heard was that Arminians might be on the the right side of the line, but just barely, just a little more confused thinking about other related issues and the line is easily crossed. You don't have to get the finer points of theology to be saved, but certain basics are required and Arminianism appears to pass the test, barely, and only if you are willing admit that a faulty view of the atonment is not sufficient to block salvation. As time passes I realize that Spurgeon is essentially spouting double-speak, the definition of heresy is a soul-destroying perversion of either the Gospel or the nature of God. There is no such thing as a heresy that doesn't kill. Therefore, to be technically accurate, if you believe an Arminian can be a Christian, then to you, Arminianism is not heresy. However, many Arminians of today have swallowed enough other false doctrines to sink their ships so there is no need to argue about Arminianism. I for example was such a one. Spurgeon is consistent with most of his forebears however, including Augustine, who first faced a theology similar to Arminianism, and dealt with it as one would to a brother in Christ, and not as one would deal with a heretic who is outside the body. "
Source

Now, talk about double speak! On one hand Arminians are saved, but are heretics and heresy kills... but as you keep reading John he is clear that they are not saved!

So which is it... or is he double minded?

Be Blessed,
iggy

Interesting points on the blogsphere

Ken Silva misses the point that he and Tony Jones agree that most American Christians are “Semi-palegian” and only focuses on the point that “John MacArthur” is mentioned as a "soft gnostic"… now even Calvin admitted to having been influenced by Plato, (many real scholars and researchers agree that this is true) so I see not reason why this is an issue to Ken Silva other than fanning the flames of discontent.



Now the comments at Tony Jone's site are well worth the read. Oh, Tony is moving to http://tonyj.net/ so update your blogrolls.


Source 1
Source 2
Source 3

Vanguard Church is doing an interesting series on John MacArthur's "truth war" book.

1: John MacArthur’s Post-Enlightenment Philosophical Understanding of “Truth”
2: Is Rob Bell a Godless Man, Condemned by God?
3: Is Postmodernism Primarily Concerned with Truth?
4: Straw Men – The Emerging Church is Filled with Hard Postmodernists
5: MacArthur Fits His Own Criteria for an Apostate

I know this video is a bit old... but it still hits me and somehow seems appropriate.



Be Blessed,
iggy

The Emerging Church Newest Leader... Brad Pitt

Here is one that is stranger that fiction... and though I am trying to not read Christian Research Network it seems to drag me in like a sleazy news tabloid at the grocery counter... (BTW Did you know the Roundup Sheriffs found Bigfoot!?)

The "editor" who writes suspiciously like Ken Silva shows us that he can connect anything with the emerging church... Brad Opens Up About His Faith

"In this piece People gives us a capsule of the emerging church mentality and the new evangelical infomercial gospel in the following from Brad Pitt, "who was raised a conservative Southern Baptist," but then pursued "God" his own individual way which lead to "a discovery of self":"

Now, after reading this article I thought that there was more of a problem that is NOT BEING addressed with he Baptist denomination at the time Brad Pitt was in a spiritual crisis. They were not RELEVANT to Brad's situation. This goes deeper than Brad Pitt being selfish... it goes to the core that if we as a church focus on things and call everything sin that is not sin (going to a concert) we are driving people away from Jesus. I was personally saved at a church who was giving a Christian rock concert... and it was in no way a "liberal" church... it was pretty mainstreamed. Imagine if a youth pastor had been able to take Brad to a Christian rock concert and that was enough to keep Brad out of crisis and refocus on Jesus.

We tend to make things MORE enticing when we make them taboo...

Instead of seeing this as a point where relevance would have possibly allowed Brad to grow more in his faith, I see Ken just sees it as another time to "gossip" and attack the emerging church and connect it with whatever he can. What is really sad is that I came across an article on a website that was posted in 2005. Ken seemed to have a good grasp of reality... it seems now he will grab any gossip mag like "People" to prove his research.

The blame is not on us... it is on Ken's own denomination... which now is accepting to emerging church more and more seems to be missed on Ken as he is in an "emerging" denomination. He rants regularly against the SBC in which he is ordained.

Source 1 http://christianresearchnetwork.com/index.php?s=southern+baptist

Source 2 http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/open_letter_to_1.html

Source 3 http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/update_on_sbc_d.html

Source 4 http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/01/ken_silva_on_th.html

It seems that Ken is willing to stay in a denomination he regards as apostate, and condemn someone like Brad Pitt who was in Ken's own denomination... and blame it all on emergents... Strange logic if you ask me... I see at least Frank Page is trying to make a difference.

Now the real question would be (for the girls and those so inclined) ... If Brad Pitt came to your church, would that in itself be an attractional ministry?

Be Blessed,

iggy

Bob Hyatt is a hypocrite! (according to CRN)

I don't go to Christian Research Network any more... I used to, but ever since the day of prayer for Ken Silva, I have lost interest in them... so prayers were answered...

Now, I still go to Christian Research Network info and analysis where I found this.


This is the gist of the "hypocrisy"

"Well, Hyatt has now indeed done something rather foolish in linking this video at his Bob.Blog. You see this South Park production actually is mean-spirited and offensive to those of the Mormon "faith tradition" thereby exposing his own Hip Hip Hip Hy-pocrisy!"

So the bottom line is this,

You can attack and slander and lie about other Christians, yet if you show an accurate portrayal of the Mormons... even from "South Park" it is hypocrisy?!

There is a huge difference here... Bob never created South Park... which is accurate in its portrayal of Mormons. Team Pyro created the Emergent-See Po-Motivators For Emerging Christians posters which are mean spirited and an INACCURATE portrayal of the emerging Christians... Now, the kicker is CRN still linked to the video (via Bob's blog) themselves... you know that foul mouthed video (he uses the word "ass"). So, they are complaining about Bob linking to the video while they link to Bob's link to the video... (Can you say hip-hip- oh... oh come on! This is about as "dum" as it can get!)

Now, what makes me more angry (OK, let's just say upset) is that CRN and Ken Silva made me watch South Park... and now seem to also defend the Mormon "faith tradition" thereby And worse they made me stumble by having me watch South Park! LOL! You see I had heard about the video, yet, because I do not like South Park, I did not watch it or had any desire to... until CRN decided to attack a friend of mine and claim it was "dirty" (spoken in that hushed kind of way). So thanks Ken and Crew!

Now, posts like the one at CRN seem just a little vindictive and petty to me.


be blessed,
iggy

Quoting Tozer: Isn't it Great that CRN is anti-mystics yet...

I find it so funny that CRN quotes Tozer regularly... and yet rants against many things Tozer taught!

1. Tozer promoted "Christian mysticism".

Although many Christians cringe at the term “mystic,” A.W. Tozer used the term to mean, “that spiritual experience common to the saints of the Bible times and well known to multitudes of persons in the post-biblical era.” He referred to the evangelical mystic as one “who has been brought by the gospel into intimate fellowship with the Godhead.” from the back of the book: The Christian Book of Mystical Verse by A. W. Tozer

2. Tozer promoted "Free Will" Here is another source.




Tozer was asked by a young man studying at a Bible school, "Dr. Tozer when the boys begin to debate Arminian and Calvinistic theology, what position should I take." Dr. Tozer replied, "Son, when they begin that debate you go and get in your prayer closet and you cry out to God and in four years you will be closer to the Lord but those boys will still be debating Arminianism and Calvinism."


Now the real question is why would CRN quote Tozer and as I also do at times... being of emerging persuasion... I believe this quote sums it up.

Some wonder why "Tozer's writings are as fresh today as when he was alive. It is because, as one friend commented, "He left the superficial, the obvious and the trivial for others to toss around. . . . [His] books reach deep into the heart."

Yet, if one disagrees with someone to the point of name calling and often slanderous accusations... then why quote from someone that seems to back the ideas of your opponent... unless it is to show both are wrong. Why use one to show his ideals are yours when they are not? Now that IS the question that one need ask CRN.

Be Blessed,
iggy

Of respect and gentleness

Normally I might have had about 5 or 6 posts out this week... yet for some reason I am just not that motivated.

Partly there are some things at work... I won't go into detail but the stress level has risen a bit. I also have been feeling better but in that I am doing more outside thing. Being on that statin drug limited me as far as what i could or felt able to do... Most often work drained me and I would on occasion go for a walk, but mostly I just felt "tired".

The other thing is I am taking some time as to a direction... I was going to pop off a couple of "John MacArthur" posts, but they seems lame and quite frankly John MacArthur has become a bit boring. Also, I think that there is not much more to say. I do not agree with "Lordship Salvation" nor do I agree that one must commit to all the things John states one does to be saved... as that is "works" plain and simple... I see that if one accepts Jesus for Who He is... one will grow in their faith and realize what and who Jesus is. Noted that most Lordship Salvation people miss that all will call Jesus Lord one day... but not all will be saved in their acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. Some will bend that knee and call Him Lord and still enter the Lake of Fire.

NOW, I have had some fun at CRN.info as they have some really good posts up now... I would at least take a look at this weeks worth of post... I have done a lot of comments there... enough to probably have posted a good dozen times here.

Yet, still I am truly wanting to move in a different direction. Sparing with someone over theology is fun, but if the other is more resentful toward you and has little to no respect, it gets a bit tiresome to continue a dialog that seems to only entrench oneself further in one own position.

I will not state the name, but I have also been emailing back and forth with a writer from CRN who thinks I have been using Ken Silva as a punching bag at CRN.info... I noted that it goes like this...

I ask Ken a question concerning he accusation against me or that he set up in an article... Ken responds with mockery or a put down... I do something like a Jujitsu move using Ken's own momentum and then he just gets nastier.

But, you see the guy missed that Ken started the punch with accusation that have nothing behind them...

I have asked for direct quotes concerning the accusations against people like Brian McLaren...

1. Where has he stated he does not believe in the biblical "Hell"?
2. Where has he stated he is a "universalist"?
3.Where has he stated that to be gay is OK and not a sin?

What I am usually given, if given anything is a video that states we need to have compassion on the lost... which includes gay people... but no where does Brian condone sin.

I also asked for quotes about other accusations.

1. Give me a direct quote where Tony Jones or anyone at Emergent Village denies "biblical" truth.
2. Show me a direct quote that anyone at emergent village denies the "authority" of scripture.


Now, the inerrancy question is not about same issue that most "fundamentalist" think... as they have a definition that is much different from those who originally stated the definition was. And yes, Spencer Burke has stated he is a universalist... but most miss that there is a twist... he believes in hell... so, all emergents deny hell except Spencer... LOL!

It is a crazy world.

In this conversation we acknowledge no one has it all together or has all the answers. Theology should not just be about sword rattling, but it can also be fun. If we cannot talk to each other, then we miss out that someone might have a piece that we needed that can help our understanding of our faith in God. We will and should not all agree... and yes some are or have gone off the tracks, yet i see that in even the fundamentalist who believes KJVonly... or that tongue have ended... or that prophecy has ended... (as in the case of Frank Turk at teampyro, who seems to like to defend the self proclaimed last day prophet Ken Silva... go figure that one out).

This is a fascinating time and really a hard time. Many miss that schools do not teach "biblical" ideas... that God is not a given in most homes and that the American dream has replace Christian values. Yet, somehow people expect that others just understand the Christian world view... but you see, the world is watching us... and they are wiser that we give them credit. Even Jesus pointed that out in the parable of the shrewd manager in Luke 16.

When we do not take time to listen and already assume we have the answer I see we lose out at the chance that God will do something even greater. It is not wrong to be able to give an answer... but the last part of the oft quoted verse... is with gentleness and kindness... here see what I mean.

1 Peter 3: 15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

When we lose sight of gentleness and respect truly we must then rationalize things like our judgmentalism... and we lose even more as we give ground for others to speak maliciously against us and against Jesus.

I know I am guilty of this... so no need to write and tell me. Yet, I always look for any opportunity to move toward reconciliation and that one can be restored. I may rag on Ken Silva, but I earnestly seek that he can see the harm he has done and that his ministry can also focus on not just the negative, but give praise to those who show that they are orthodox and not just run them down more. I pray that Ken also gives a door to reconciliation and restoration of the brothers he sees as "in sin" and more I pray that humility will allow Ken to go to even greater heights in his ministry.

So, I guess this post is about gentleness and respect for others. Give an answer... but realize that even if you can answer all the questions a person has... the only real answer is Jesus and that is truly all we have to give anyone.

Again, I am far from the target... but that is why I turned to Jesus in the first place.

Be Blessed,
iggy

Fist in the Air! I am also a "gutless grace girlieman"

My friend John O'Keefe has a great article concerning how CRN thinks grace is for girliemen... sad really that Jesus being full of Grace and Truth is demeaned by their sad view of Grace.

Sadder their view of Jesus.

So I too put my fist in the air and declare myself a "gutless grace girlieman" and Jesus be praised!

Blessings,
iggy


Source 1
Source 2

Day of Fasting and Prayer for Ken Silva is Today

Please take some time today to pray for Ken Silva.

You may comment and pray there if you want, but please this is not a time of being "anti" something and have respect for Ken... but a time to spread hope and express to God that we love Ken Silva and desire God's best for him.

Blessings,
iggy

The Pride of Evangelicalism: ‘Man Saves Man’ and Decisions Are The Plan: A Responose

I just read this post... The Pride of Evangelicalism: ‘Man Saves Man’ and Decisions Are The Plan


And my response is...

Huh?

When I was involved in the "seeker/purpose models... we never taught man can save man... salvation is and was and will always be of God....

Even more so I know of not one person who teaches this in the emerging conversation...

For all my years as an Evangelical Christian it has always been taught:

Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast."

This was taught in the Evangelical Church... and every church i have attended....

So, all I can say to this straw-man accusational post... is

HUH?

Be Blessed,
iggy

Getting ready for the fast and prayer Aug 28th...

The Christianity Today article is out...

"The angriest websites are those belonging to small, but disturbingly visible, fundamentalist Protestant groups outraged that fellow Protestants appear to be holding out a welcoming hand to Catholics or Orthodox Christians.

Leading the charge against alleged ecumenists is Apprising Ministries (AM), a New Hampshire-based group whose leader is Southern Baptist pastor Ken Silva. Rick Warren, according to AM, is a "milquetoast." Schuller and the late Norman Vincent Peale are "the devil's duo." Richard Foster (a leading Quaker writer on Christian spirituality), Brian McLaren (a leader in the emerging church movement), and Joel Osteen (pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston) are "vipers of new evangelicalism" and "whitewashed tombs." Through the Web, such commentary gains a global audience—Christian and non-Christian."

Again, Ken's reply was:

"Since Christ gave it to me, then I say, the Lord be praised…. Have these people ever considered that the anger coming through me as a pastor-teacher sent by the Lord just might not actually be my own?" ~ Ken Silva

Also Ken response to me about this day of prayer and fasting was this mocking response:
Ken Silva Will Be Blessed Next Week!

So, again join me in prayer and fasting to bless Ken Silva.

Blessings,
iggy

Prayer and Fasting for Ken... while he mocks me over it!

It is so strange that "war" is at the heart of those in Ken Silva's camp... to the point that even when I state I and others will pray for Ken that God blesses him, Ken uses this as a point and issue to mock me! LOL! You can read it here at CRN. Ken Silva Will Be Blessed Next Week!

I will continue to seek Jesus' way and pray for my enemies...

"An emerging church nemesis of mine named Carlos Shelton (aka "iggy") has called for a day of prayer and fasting for me in order that God might set me free from…ah, well–whatever it is that he personally dislikes about me."

(Note: Ken is not my declared enemy or nemesis, as I have never declared him an enemy... maybe a confused brother in Christ who sees he speaks in the "anger of the Lord"... IOW he has declared he is my enemy. Ken has judged and condemned me as not saved and an apostate false teacher. The only Nemesis Ken has is in his own fantasies.)

I will also state that it is interesting to me that Ken declares condemnation on me and others in the Name of Jesus, while the Bible states clearly:

Romans 8: 1-2
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2. because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."

Note also that on my discussion forum there are many different people in which the "emerging group" is minority. It seems that there though we all get along (for the most part). Also, iggyROCKS! plays much of the artists that CRN, Slice of Laodicea and such are against... and some that they also endorse! It seems again that it is not doctrine but style that is the issue...

I will still pray for Ken and if you are for him or against him please join in our prayer and fasting for Ken to be blessed... the only catch is... either way Ken will be humbled by God to receive it. Humility is a good thing in the Kingdom of God so that is not a threat at all... unless Ken decided to continue in his pride and forsake the blessings of God for his own way.

Remember Ken has declared to be the mouth piece of God... he claims he speaks for God as God is angry with us all that do not agree with Ken.

"Since Christ gave it to me, then I say, the Lord be praised…. Have these people ever considered that the anger coming through me as a pastor-teacher sent by the Lord just might not actually be my own?"

I still wonder at that comment as I see in Hebrews God's word states:

Hebrews 1: 1-2
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe."

I do not see Ken's name in that verse, do you?

Note also Ken by stating what he has negates "cessasionism" which is what is taught in the "team pyro" so it would seem that Ken being a modern day prophet runs against the teachings of Frank Turk.

If you think that you want to join me in this time of prayer and fasting on Tuesday the 28th of August, email me. iggy@wwdb.org

I will declare peace in the Name of the Prince of Peace, in this so called "truth war". I am standing on the Word of God as our Lord taught:

Luke 6:

27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. "

Ken can call me whatever he wants... I still intend to pray ony for God to truly bless Ken in His full abundance.

BTW I actually do like Ken... no matter what he states otherwise... I mean... I am setting side a day to pray for him...

Blessings,
iggy

Related links:

Link 1

Link 2

~ emerging thought in Montana ~: Ken Silva will be blessed next week!

Ken Silva Will Be Blessed Next Week!

Ken Silva will be blessed next week!

I've decided that Tuesday the 28th of August will be the day.

Please join us to pray and fast for Ken Silva to be blessed of God and in the greater hope to end this so called Truth War...

"Blessed are the peace makers." ~ Jesus The Messiah

Blessings,
iggy

Here's more proof of Ken's implosion and the fruit of John MacArthur

Ken shows us more of his implosion
An Idea Concerning Controversy on the Pyro Posters for the Emerging Church

Here are some quotes from the "Grace to you" team. You know those guys who follow John MacArthur showing their version of grace, mercy and love to those who they deem not worthy!



Truly this poster in particular is a projection of themselves. It shows that "masks" are very important and even more than what is underneath (the fruit of Johnny Mac's Ministry) is "meaner and scarier that you thought!"

The most interesting "comment" is that last two. One about a mom whose young child flicks her so she "flicks" her young child back HARDER... again I don't remember "flicking" anyone. I do remember that Johnny Mac has declared a "truth war" (I am still trying to figure out if he is against truth of for it LOL!)

Ken makes sure he gets the last line in, yet it seems that really all this looks like is a bully who got mad because a young Christian turned the other cheek.

The creator of these posters is credited to Phil Johnson who is the executive Director of Grace to You, a Christian tape and radio ministry featuring the preaching ministry of John MacArthur. Phil has been closely associated with John MacArthur since 1981 and edits most of MacArthur's major books.

This might have been funny if it wasn't so juvenile.

Below are the "mature", "Grace to you" Christian's comments.

Be Blessed,

iggy

centuri0n said...
Boy, that's gotta sting.But, sadly, it didn't bring anyone to Jesus, so, you know, "like ministry", dude. You should do more ministry rather than bringing me down.Now I'm going to play in the sunshine where it's warm and stuff, and you can just go be a rain cloud someplace else. Jesus hates haters, man. 12:59 PM, August 04, 2007

centuri0n said...
Isn't that Mensa Reject on the left on the second one? My left. 1:00 PM, August 04, 2007

Grace said...
Exactly what I was thinking.I suppose it's unloving for me to call their reaction hypocrisy. But it's my honest opinion. So what do emergents value more: tolerance or transparency? 1:43 PM, August 04, 2007

SolaMeanie said...
"I'm shocked..SHOCKED..that there is satire going on in here!" (Interrupted by waiter) "Your next tweak, sir..." (hands poster to Phil)"Thank you very much. Clear the room immediately!"**With thanks to Claude Rains and Casablanca** 1:57 PM, August 04, 2007

IronWill said...
Hilarious! 2:07 PM, August 04, 2007

Libbie said...
You can't work a waaaambulance into this somewhere?Now, now boys, it's not big and it's not clever.Oh, alright then, it is. 2:47 PM, August 04, 2007

Ken Silva said...
You know, I have to wonder here. The Christ followers in the emerging church are all about engaging culture, hanging out with sinners, and going to the pub to discuss Jesus.Well I wonder, why don't they just reimagine that there's a hip new stand-up comic performing at one of these pubs and she is using these lines in her act. Pretty funny stuff. 9:03 PM, August 04, 2007

terriergal said...
Another couple of brilliant ones.The more I talk to emergents, the more dizzy I get trying to keep up with jumping trains of thought. Lord, open their eyes, if it be your will.Certainly this great delusion social gospel, seeker-sensitive, emergent, mysticism all converging in one homogenous mish-mash is serving to purify His church...usually outside the four walls of the building.I don't know if my comment at CRN.info and analysis (they actually created a site just for psychoanalyzing the people at CRN? Wow...that's flattering!) will get posted, but here is what I sent to them: Comment from Paula Time: August 5, 2007, 12:04 am“I sometimes feel sorry for the watch doggies. I mean, if I realized that my way of doing church was going to be obsolete in a matter of years with the culture shift taking place around the globe. ”Then… what? could you complete the sentence, please? isn’t this kind of like the guy in Luke 18 saying “Boy I’m glad I’m not like THAT guy…” 10:11 PM, August 04, 2007

ddd said...
'my way of doing church is going obselete'Heh, if you can't convince people from Scripture, just pretend you are a Prophet (capital P) ... Eh, wait, you mean Scripture contains more than narrative? 7:04 AM, August 05, 2007

Everyday Mommy said...
The emergents remind me of my five year-old. We were playing the other day and he thought it was fun to flick mom on the head. I finally flicked him back and he yelled, "Hey! That hurt!" 7:11 AM, August 05, 2007

Ken Silva said...
Everyday Mommy made me laugh right out loud...
1:16 PM, August 05, 2007

The accusations fly and the implode continues....

This article seem to not even need any comments it speaks volumes itself as to how far Ken and Crew will go to slander and lie.

Note: There are a few that are discussing and exploring Universalism... yet not the type that all get "saved" in the end... as even Spenser Burke states: "I am a universalist that believes in Hell"... which should be an indication he is not "that" type of universalist as in "all get saved in the end". His view is that all are saved, unless you "opt out".

I do not agree with him ( ~ emerging thought in Montana ~: Universalism: Why I do not agree) as I do not see that Spenser has built he case, nor did Scot McKnight (Jesus Creed » Heretic’s Guide to Eternity 4) and many, many others... Spenser is a voice, who still believes in Hell... so the statement, "and exposes his universalism and his panentheism only to be told that he doesn’t speak for Emergent." is still not accurate... maybe "speaks within" out speaks as part of".

My other point is what is to be made of the statement that Paul states about the gaol of God through Jesus as in 1 Cor 15:28 " When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." I think this verse sounds a little "panentheism" (What is panentheism?) I think there is a good case for the topic though I myself have not pursued that as a possibility.

The real issue is the insistent connection with the occult... it has become a sick obsession of Ken Silva. His statements like these are sadly what make him lose more and more credibility (if he had any);

"These words were written by Julie Clawson whose husband Mike was one of the planners of the Mideast Emergent "Gathering", which by the way also happens to a term Wiccans use as well for their meetings."

I guess anyone who "gathers" is now in league with Satan...

Acts 12:44. "On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord."
Matthew 18:20. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

The logic is just not there unless Ken is saying...

Well that is the over simplicity of his allegations.

SO it seems the only whining ( And the Whining of the Emergent Church Continues…) that does continue is Kens is somehow shocked about the response to the slanderous posters of Phil Johnson... That they were more Christ-like than the attack could ever be. As Ken shows his nasty side by calling this article "hit piece". (Motivation or Ridicule?) Yep, Julie Clawson is so vicious in her attack against Ken and Phil... LOL! It seems that Ken is opposed to anything that resemble Jesus Christ in action. I ma just wonder how Ken did not fit "semi-pelagian" in the article. Oh wait! He did! LOL!

Notice that Ken calls for fire from heaven?

"You see, "soon" it’s going to get mighty hot up in here…O Lord send us Thy fire…" ~Ken Silva


Maybe he needs reminded of the words of Jesus...

Luke 9: 54 - 56. "When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village. "


Be blessed,
iggy

How Right I Am!!!

I accidentally found a great video by Brian McLaren... Where? On CRN...



This post confirms what I have been saying for some time, that the "Truth War" is not about "truth" but about different views of the Kingdom of God.

Yet, as I stated many times here and elsewhere, this is not a war about truth, but about whether Jesus Resurrection brought the Kingdom to earth as in the Lords Pray.

Funny thing, the "editor" seems to be against the Lord's Prayer. He seems to be pointing out that the Kingdom of God is not here... that Jesus death, burial and resurrection were a huge waste of time... and the only reason Jesus died was to get our butts out of hell into heaven.

A version of the Kingdom that Jesus came to bring it... failed so left and will come again as the wrathful and angry God they worship, unless the emergent take over the church and all is lost...

or

A version in which Jesus being the first born of the New Creation ushered in the Kingdom of God, on Earth as it is in Heaven. It is not in it's fullness but it will be soon.

I think the second one seems a bit more biblical... well at least from what the scripture states being true.

So one can believe the truth, enter into God's Kingdom through Jesus Christ... or believe a lie...

Maybe this is a truth war... and the truth is some hate the Kingdom of God so much that they willingly exchange the truth for a lie and worship their own creation of what the bible says.

Beware false teachers.

I think the reason they think Brian McLaren is so dangerous, is that he makes them face what the bible actually teaches.

blessings,

iggy