Are the "new" Online Discernment Ministries more like the cults?

I made an observation a while back in 2007 that some ODM's seem more cultish and at least may have many of the warning signs of danger. I went against my "rule" to not delete things on this blog and had deleted a few things in the name of peace in hopes some would seek peace also. Yet the post in "sorts" is still available at CRN.info. In a way I meant it as a joke, yet still was shocked to see the list from Cultintervention.com seemed spot on concerning Ken Silva at least.

The observation was that Ken Silva met 9 out of 10 of these warning signs.

Somehow in all this mess I have become friends with Richard Abanes (don't blame him!) who I see is a very fair and balanced writer when it comes to apologetics. He has a post that I think is a must read and also gives great insight into what I observed in 2007.

I see more an more the ODM are on a dangerous slide into cultism and apostasy... in their zeal to preserve and protect God and His Truth (Which if you think about it is anti-biblical as God and His Truth protect us.) I also recommend Richard's other post he cites in his post.

CRN lies some more... but what's new?

Interesting that Chris Rosebrough sees fit to lie about Richard Abanes again. His claims that Richard has yet to give an answer... is well... a lie. Richard already gave an answer... which seems that Chris Rosebrough sees fit to ignore.

Personally this whole situation has shown me what these ODM's truly are. I see that they will stop at nothing and use the ways of the world to attack and slander others. They seem to have no shame... nor the ability to extend Grace, Mercy, or the loving Kindness of God. I wonder as I read scripture at the King who forgave a servant a great debt... yet that servant went out and demanded payment from another that owed him money...

Here is that passage.

Matt 18:21-35

21. Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22. Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

23. "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. 26. "The servant fell on his knees before him. `Be patient with me,' he begged, `and I will pay back everything.' 27. The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28. "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. `Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. 29. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, `Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' 30. "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.

31. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. 32. "Then the master called the servant in. `You wicked servant,' he said, `I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34. In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35. "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

This is my fear for these people.

In a recent dialogue with a very prominent figure in all this, they confessed that they had trouble "not hating" me. I believe that is part of their issue. They need to deal with the person in the mirror... and not project their issues on others.

I practice forgiveness daily... I forgive them for making even physical threats against my person as one "pastor" did. I forgive them for judging my salvation which is God's territory only.

I would not be surprise to receive a letter from a lawyer from one of them. Again, they seem to have no issues with doing as the world does.

This "Truth War" was never about truth...

My heart truly goes out to these people. I pray for them daily asking for God's best for them and that they be blessed in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I do not hate them... yet it seems they need to overcome their own hatred for others.

Blessings,

iggy

I found this funny and interesting....

You might notice who is talked about the most?


Now, you might notice who really gets the glory at these to opposing sites?

http://wordle.net/gallery?username=BigRed

Thanks Big Red... LOL!

iggy

Modern church news, from an old church perspective

UPDATE: As I stated when I posted this, Jim does things like re-route people he does not like... Well with unfailing predictability, Jim Bublitz showed his true nature by redirecting links to him back here which just proved my point... but what's new! Thanks Jim! LOL! Oh btw if you are so inclined to go to Oldtruth.com... use the "snap shot" link. If Jim bans or re-routes that he will loose anyone that uses "snap-shot". ; ) just like he has just banned anyone who uses my ISP in Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota...

Modern church news, from an old church perspective is a title of a certain blog that claims not only to be holding the the "truth" but to also have high integrity... yet if you know that blog you will agree somehow it seems to all fit that blog really good!

This article just reminded me of an Old friend and his tactics.

(I can't wait to see where he sends you! LOL!)

I saw this picture and just went down memory lane as I thought about how "certain" all the ODM's are.

iggy

Remember to also keep praying for the fire victims.

UPDATE:

Jim States:

"Another blogger notified me of your mention of my SeekerSensitive.com site today, and I must say - I agree with you on the false advertising appearance that you pointed out, as it relates to posting links on pro-seeker listings.

I was given the website domain that you mentioned, by a previous owner who apparently set up whatever it is that you saw. If I find my site falsely listed under wrong directory categories in the future I will pursue having the link delisted."

Tim, Ingrid and the Great Cover up.

Titus 2: 11-15

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

In a way I do not want to write this, yet after praying I realized that many of us need to speak out on this topic. It pains me as far as the examples I will use, yet I hope to give a real life presentation of the Gospel in action against the false teachings of some. One of the examples is a friend and I do not wish to bring any more pain to him so I hope that this will not add to his hurt, but lift him out of the pain of those who deem themselves as more worthy sinners than others.

Tim Reed is a good guy. I really enjoy his thoughts and have gained things from him. He is a pastor of Owasso Church of Christ. The first thing I want you to note is that I do not agree with Tim on some doctrinal issues, yet I see those issues as secondary to his faith in Christ so I focus on that instead of where we disagree.

Now, Tim loves to play some sort of “Fantasy” game which seems to include that one might become an evil dictator who wants to rule the world. Tim stated that he had played these games for many years before coming to Jesus.

Ingrid is a radio show host and “watchdoggie” blog. She likes to report on the failings of those she sees as heretics. Now, I agree with her on some things so this is not a total “I am against Ingrid” post. In fact, if I was to percentage out what she talks about, I would agree more with her than against her… yet she seems to think that all falls on the emerging church and is very vocal against those that have a differing “style” of worship ie, pastors should not wear jeans to preach in, churchs should have pews (though I understand she attends a house church) and music for worship can be performed by a secular choir, but not rock music by believers who desire to worship Jesus. So, my “beef” is that she confuses preference with God’s holiness and style with biblical mandates.

Now, my biggest issue with Online Discernment Ministries, (ODM’s) is that they often go way overboard in their zeal to expose and shame those they deemed as worse sinners as themselves. In this case Ingrid parsed through 1 and ½ years of posts to find one comment made by Tim (which I will not post here as it is very distasteful). Many of these comments were in defense against atheists who attacked him for his beliefs at the discussion forum, yet he made this one comment that later came back to haunt him.

Soon after Tim made the comment he was IM’d by a friend and the moderator who both rebuked Tim for his overboard comment. He saw his wrong and apologized to all offended parties and was forgiven by them.
Now, again 1 ½ years later, Ingrid finds times forgiven sins and resurrects them publically to shame Tim and expose him as one of the “new pastors today” she seems to dispise.

Now, remember Tim does not deny he stated the things Ingrid posted… and he does show remorse and did all he could to make it right with the people around him. He even went so far as to create a new story line for himself in the game so he would nto be so evil.

1. Tim sinned.
2. Tim was rebuked.
3. Tim repented.
4. Tim was forgiven.
5. All was well with the world again.

Tim later, (after the post at SoL), deleted his account where Ingrid quoted him as supporters at SoL were attacking those at the forum and judging and condemning them. He openly admits to all this.

Then came Ingrid who even after reading all the facts having already stated Tim to be one of the “enemies of Jesus Christ”, states he is being “deceptive”.

Here is Tim’s side if you want to read it.

As far as living out the obedience to Jesus by forgiving others as He commanded, Ingrid seems to think that is not a command that applies to her.

Forgiveness is not part of the ODM’s doctrine when it comes to those they hate. I am sorry, but out of all this I do not see these verses coming out of the ODM’s side at all.

“Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.”

“Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”

“So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, `I repent,’ forgive him.”


I have heard the ODM’s state things as, “You redefine fundamentalist. You redefine pharisee You redefine salvation. You redefine Jesus and the Gospel. You are a credit to post-modern dogma. The Gospel is all about reconciliation and forgiveness. It is not an excuse to blow-off sin.” Yet, then miss the very opportunity to forgive the stated sin… but instead cast more self righteous stones at Tim or whoever.

Now, what motivates such people to hate others so much? I will not get into Ingrid’s or others motives, as they will be exposed by God in His due time. Yet, I have found from experience, both out of my life as one who would at one time cast stones without thought to giving forgiveness, and having received the stones from the ODM’s myself. They seem to express some sort of maturity yet seem to miss the core of the Gospel of Reconciliation. In fact these (again I include myself as I did this myself) mock the very Gospel they proclaim. I will add that a person who is inclined to cast stones often does not understand the forgivness and Grace of God as they trust their own works as the "back-up" if God's grace is not sufficient for them after all.

Is sin forgiven? According to the bible there is not one doubt and without hesitation I must state yes! Yet, it seems that if one does not like a person, a religionist will not accept the “so called” offender repentance. In this lack of grasping the Gospel of reconciliation they give no reconciliation to the other and only mock God and the gospel as they leave the other in their sin.

I will state this about Tim; he did all that God required so no man (or woman) has a right to add to that. To those who dig up old dirt then use it to shame and “expose” others only expose that they know not Grace nor love the Kindness of God. They seek only to show how right they are in their own eyes. Such a person need be avoided for they shame the Gospel and count Jesus Blood as nothing. I see that often the very sins one notices in others is the type of sin we see in ourselves. If one is under the performance type faith and sees God as the “God Father” instead of God the Father, then they well view obedience as “payment” to keep their god happy. They deceive themselves as only Jesus pleased the Father and we all need be in Christ to also be pleasing to God. Without Jesus no one is pleasing to God. In that being the truth, no one can boast that they are more pleasing to God than another. That is called humility.

Tim is being accused of covering up his sins… he is not. I see though that some sin openly against their brothers and sisters in the role of being the Accuser of them. They then cover their own sin in a thin veil of self righteous prater that only drive more away from Jesus or more into a false gospel of works.

Tim has grown from this and sees the error of his ways... yet it seems that God teaching someone and freeing them of their past sins, is not enough for Ingrid and others. I see the Great Cover Up is about those who condone the sin of Ingrid, Ken and others as they slander and lie and continue to set a standard of righteouness that is not biblical and in fact cuts across the grain of the Gospel. If one though did repent and confess their sin, I for one would be fighting for a place in line to offer forgivness and a huge hug.

Not only is this so, butI would also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:11)

iggy

Mike Corley goes to Mars Hill... it was not as he was told.

Mike Corley decided to do what a real Online Discernment Ministry would do... go out and check on all the rumors.

With hit pieces like this one by Ingrid... which seemed more about her own lascivious mind than the reality of what was happening at Mars Hill. I am glad to see someone actual research instead of regurgitate the lies and slander that many others are content with spreading in their protecting of "truth".

Now, many have written about how bad Mark Driscoll is... yet to Mike Corley's surprise... it seemed not as he was told... surprised? Not me!

Here is Mike Corley's surprise.

At least one ODM has actually done some research... I just hope he now realizes that some he has associated in the past with, may not have the gift of discernment they claim...

And KUDOS to you Mike!

be blessed,

iggy

Source: CRN.info

One subtle deception of John MacArthur: Bad Quotes

I am amazed that more people do not understand that Truth protects us... we do not protect truth.

John MacArthur states in his book The Truth War...

“It is our duty to guard, proclaim, and pass that truth on to the next generation." [1 Timothy 6:20–21]

Now let's go look at his reference.

"O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen."

Note how subtle this is... but that is how Satan works!

Yes, Paul is stating to Timothy to "Guard what was committed to your trust.." but does Paul go on to say "go out and fight and expose those who attack truth."? No.

Paul simply states to Timothy to guard Truth by, "avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge..."

Notice the word... "avoiding". It does not nor has ever meant to declare war on others.

My Truth is the Person of Jesus Christ. I see that He protects me... I cannot do anything to protect Jesus for He is God and I am a mere man.

So, my question is this... What kind of god needs protecting? And if that god does, how can a finite man protect an Almighty, all powerful God?

It seems to me that John MacArthur has diminished God from Who He really is in this "truth war" and the more I learn of John MacArthur's theology, the more I wonder if he thinks himself greater than God Himself...

So Ken Silva... What is your beef with Tony Jones?

I am going to just ask this open question.

I have read much of Ken Silva' "false" accusations against many... yet I am wondering what are the specific things Ken holds against Tony?

Now, if you use the "Tony used the "f" word... I will remind you Ken you used the headline,and the quote many more times than Tony has... and in fact I am on record as asking Tony to tame down his language... so let's move on from that one.

Yet, how can you justify the name calling?

What are the facts behind these "names"... that make them so true?

I am holding this out so that you can state your case. So far I see these as slander and lies... but then, it seems you thrive on those things.

So, without making this all about me... let's talk about Tony Jones... and all the facts (which seemed to become opinions as of late) that you have piling up against him.

iggy

Updated: This is an example of Ken's "research" (now opinion) in which as usual he gives only half the story.

Source 1: Ken lies and slanders Bruce.

Source 2: Bruce tells the rest of the story.

So Ken... about the lies and slander (I mean "opinions") concerning Tony... I am still waiting for you to prove your lies and slander as Truth...

The Irony of Steve Camp calling for an apology from Mark Driscoll

Steve Camp "publicly" called for an apology at Justin Taylor's site:

"Mark,

I am addressing this here publicly to you for you made a derogatory comment about it this past Sunday publicly and indirectly about Timmy's character and person. What made it very ironic, was that your sarcasm directed specifically to this brother's question was in the context of a sermon on humility, the incarnation, humiliation, and coronation of Jesus Christ in your Philippians series. You confessed to your church body about the need in your own life for humility and the subsequent pride that has infected others (some men you mentioned) and that it has in turn hurt the church. "

Now the irony is that "Timmy" does not seem to be so "offended" as Steve Camp is. So, it seems that it is Steve who has a beef against Mark than any need for an apology.

Again, Steve finds no issue in slandering "publicly" Mark Driscoll in stating he offended a brother and harmed the body of Christ, when the so call offended one is not even offended...

So again I call Steve to publicly repent of his own slander and false accusations against his brother Mark and harming the Body of Christ by his actions.

For more about this issue here is more.

Click here to see why Steve is smiling!

And how is this different from this CCM event except that Steve is putting on the cruise himself? I see no difference in the two except one person getting more profit and emulating the world under the guise of living a "worship centered life". Personally, I see that is not the same as a Christ centered life...

Be blessed,
iggy

Ingrid pushes Contemplative prayer!

Ingrid Schlueter of Slice of Laodicea and Hope in Laodicea (both a bit ironic of names if you understand what happened biblically to Laodicea) has been often on rants against "contemplation" and "meditation" in which the emerging church has "latched" onto. Now, this is not the same as some Hindu practice... nor is it a derivative of it, though some practice a version of Yoga in which they focus on God and scripture and prayer...

Now the thing is that amazed me is that Ingrid in all her rants often turns to the Puritans for inspiration and either never really read this PDF form or missed what the writer stated... in a way it is not that far from something Doug Padgitt or Brian McLaren have stated. Here is the quote that caught my eye... I have added the bold to emphasize the part that Ingrid missed

"We rightly criticize those who engage in transcendental meditation and other mindrelaxing exercises because these practices are connected with false religions, such asBuddhism and Hinduism, and have nothing to do with Scripture. Such forms of meditation focus on emptying the mind to become detached from the world and to merge with the so-called Cosmic Mind, not to attach to, listen to, and to be active for a living,personal God. Yet, we can learn from such people the importance of quiet reflection and prolonged meditation." (PDF FILE)

So now it seems that IF Ingrid approves of a "form" of prayer it is fine, but if the emerging church practices it, it is worldly and of Satan...

I guess the Truth is that some see that some would rather exchange Jesus' righteousness for their own righteousness and judge others by themselves as the high standard... yet then turn around and practice and teach what they also judge others for doing.

Romans 2: 1-5
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. "

So is Ingrid now the new "emerging guru"?

Be Blessed,
iggy

The Emerging Church Newest Leader... Brad Pitt

Here is one that is stranger that fiction... and though I am trying to not read Christian Research Network it seems to drag me in like a sleazy news tabloid at the grocery counter... (BTW Did you know the Roundup Sheriffs found Bigfoot!?)

The "editor" who writes suspiciously like Ken Silva shows us that he can connect anything with the emerging church... Brad Opens Up About His Faith

"In this piece People gives us a capsule of the emerging church mentality and the new evangelical infomercial gospel in the following from Brad Pitt, "who was raised a conservative Southern Baptist," but then pursued "God" his own individual way which lead to "a discovery of self":"

Now, after reading this article I thought that there was more of a problem that is NOT BEING addressed with he Baptist denomination at the time Brad Pitt was in a spiritual crisis. They were not RELEVANT to Brad's situation. This goes deeper than Brad Pitt being selfish... it goes to the core that if we as a church focus on things and call everything sin that is not sin (going to a concert) we are driving people away from Jesus. I was personally saved at a church who was giving a Christian rock concert... and it was in no way a "liberal" church... it was pretty mainstreamed. Imagine if a youth pastor had been able to take Brad to a Christian rock concert and that was enough to keep Brad out of crisis and refocus on Jesus.

We tend to make things MORE enticing when we make them taboo...

Instead of seeing this as a point where relevance would have possibly allowed Brad to grow more in his faith, I see Ken just sees it as another time to "gossip" and attack the emerging church and connect it with whatever he can. What is really sad is that I came across an article on a website that was posted in 2005. Ken seemed to have a good grasp of reality... it seems now he will grab any gossip mag like "People" to prove his research.

The blame is not on us... it is on Ken's own denomination... which now is accepting to emerging church more and more seems to be missed on Ken as he is in an "emerging" denomination. He rants regularly against the SBC in which he is ordained.

Source 1 http://christianresearchnetwork.com/index.php?s=southern+baptist

Source 2 http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/open_letter_to_1.html

Source 3 http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/update_on_sbc_d.html

Source 4 http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/01/ken_silva_on_th.html

It seems that Ken is willing to stay in a denomination he regards as apostate, and condemn someone like Brad Pitt who was in Ken's own denomination... and blame it all on emergents... Strange logic if you ask me... I see at least Frank Page is trying to make a difference.

Now the real question would be (for the girls and those so inclined) ... If Brad Pitt came to your church, would that in itself be an attractional ministry?

Be Blessed,

iggy

Bob Hyatt is a hypocrite! (according to CRN)

I don't go to Christian Research Network any more... I used to, but ever since the day of prayer for Ken Silva, I have lost interest in them... so prayers were answered...

Now, I still go to Christian Research Network info and analysis where I found this.


This is the gist of the "hypocrisy"

"Well, Hyatt has now indeed done something rather foolish in linking this video at his Bob.Blog. You see this South Park production actually is mean-spirited and offensive to those of the Mormon "faith tradition" thereby exposing his own Hip Hip Hip Hy-pocrisy!"

So the bottom line is this,

You can attack and slander and lie about other Christians, yet if you show an accurate portrayal of the Mormons... even from "South Park" it is hypocrisy?!

There is a huge difference here... Bob never created South Park... which is accurate in its portrayal of Mormons. Team Pyro created the Emergent-See Po-Motivators For Emerging Christians posters which are mean spirited and an INACCURATE portrayal of the emerging Christians... Now, the kicker is CRN still linked to the video (via Bob's blog) themselves... you know that foul mouthed video (he uses the word "ass"). So, they are complaining about Bob linking to the video while they link to Bob's link to the video... (Can you say hip-hip- oh... oh come on! This is about as "dum" as it can get!)

Now, what makes me more angry (OK, let's just say upset) is that CRN and Ken Silva made me watch South Park... and now seem to also defend the Mormon "faith tradition" thereby And worse they made me stumble by having me watch South Park! LOL! You see I had heard about the video, yet, because I do not like South Park, I did not watch it or had any desire to... until CRN decided to attack a friend of mine and claim it was "dirty" (spoken in that hushed kind of way). So thanks Ken and Crew!

Now, posts like the one at CRN seem just a little vindictive and petty to me.


be blessed,
iggy

Ingrid of the nicer, gentler Slice"flames" me...

Ingrid of the nicer, gentler Slice flames me... Then closes comments.


Oh, this is because I stated:
Chris L.

Just to warn you Jim will go on and on until he feels he wins… so ignore him and he will go away… you know like that other feller we are told to resist and he will flee…

I am more and more convinced that these guys have no clue that they are running more people off… and I think one day they will account for those souls they abused in Jesus’ Name.
I pray that will not happen but I do not see or hear or sense any godly Love from them… only a unhealthy fixation on the wrath of God at the expense of God’s grace.

I did a series on “the Religionist” and all Jim did was assume it was all about him… a bit of Narcissism if you ask me…

So, resist the devil and he will flee… sounds like sound advice from God’s word to me.

Be Blessed,
iggy

And yes Jim I did associate you with the devil… so confess your sin of lack of love for you brothers and turn to the Lord
James 2:12-13 (now that is not oldtruth… but living truth!)


Note I "associated" Jim with the devil... I did not call him The Devil as Ingrid states it. Jesus rebuked Peter, who Jesus stated, "Get behind me Satan." yet I do not think Peter turned into "The Satan" but was being used of Satan... The verse in James 2:12-13 I used was the rebuke to not judge others as Ingrid and Jim have been doing... I am stating we need stand against those who are being used by Satan to cause division.

Here is the verse:

12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!


Note that I am also using a biblical principle in that James also teaches:

James 4:4- 12

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely?But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

Now I think many of the watchdoggie blogs have slandered and judges others by the Law and miss that we are to judge others by the Law that gives freedom.

There are some things to note as you read the comments and Ingrid's interpretation...

1. Though she quotes me she distorts what I said to mean I called Jim "The Devil" and I did not... I am stating that we are to resist those that use this worlds tools like slander and lies that cause division.

2. Ingrid gets her last word in... "Thanks, Iggy, for making our point." and then promptly closed comments... it gives me no room for restoration or reconciliation... I am judged, condemned and then tossed aside.

3. In the very comments "Faye" states: “They really are clueless about their eternal state.” in which Ingrid never rebukes her for her statement... in fact a CRN.info person calls her on that statement and she admits she went too far... but not a word from Ingrid.

4. I might also point out that I am only a commenter on that site and Ingrid has elevated me as a writer… She does call me a "commenter" yet, I wonder if her own commenter’s should also be held to the same standard as she held me. Here are a few comments just from that post.

Faye:
They really are clueless about their eternal state.
(Faye does say she went too far.)

Faye:
Haven’t they ever heard of the Holy Spirit and that He will teach us and help us to recall the Truths of scripture when it is needed?

Dave:
Right, those who say that the Bible cannot be understood almost always use that as a “get out of jail free” card. What a faithless statement.

Ingrid:
For them to suggest that they are demonstrating Christian love and tolerance is laughable, and it’s about time someone publicly exposed it.

Ingrid:
These are people who demand respect for themselves that they refuse to afford others, while at the same time wrapping themselves in a cloak of “tolerance and love.” It just ain’t so.

Dave:
If they hate you remember that they hated our Lord first. To be persecuted is not noteworthy. To be persecuted for the truth is of great worth. Well done.

Faye:
They are so self- deceived and self-righteous and are like the pharisee who prayed to himself, thanking God that he is not like others especially that tax collector, who went home righteous after his humility and brokeness and cry for God’s mercy.

Jim Bublitz:
Truth be told, you and Rick share the usual list of common foes.
(BTW most of those “foes” were his friends… like Ingrid who now berate him… funny now Rick writes for this site as he is no longer accepted by Ken and Ingrid)

Ingrid:
My advice is for these gentlemen to admit that what they are doing is pharisaical and to stop their claims of moral and spiritual superiority.

Ingrid:
Imagine that. “Iggy” always has the flamethrowers at the ready to take down those he disagrees with, even going so far as to liken them to the devil himself, in Christian love, of course.

Ingrid:
Thanks, Iggy, for making our point.

Thanks Ingrid for making mine so easily as it seems that you all me to accountability yet do not do so with you own commenters.

I think Phil at CRN.info wraps this up nicely:

"It responses like these on Ingrid’s part that make me think it all a big parody. I mean, how can she with a straight face say something like, “My advice is for these gentlemen to admit that what they are doing is pharisaical and to stop their claims of moral and spiritual superiority” and call other “flamethrowers”? I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but it really unbelievable to me.
If someone asked me for a definition of irony, I would point them to that thread on her site."


Be Blessed,
iggy

CRN Article for those who are also tired of Team Pyro's antics

Go here and follow the links.... now these are funny! Parody + Satire = Patire?

Blessings,
iggy

MacArthurite Values... Modernity double speak

I found this one poster the first and maybe the only poster that was remotely close... Personally I see that we all still use the "tools" of modernity as well as "post-modernity" yet the values of both are not "Christian". In fact as I learned that in the emerging church from other emerging Christians! We do not believe in "post-modernity" as THE answer.


Yet, the hypocrisy becomes clearly evident from Phil Johnson and Crew who developed these posters. These men are also apologist fro John MacArthur so this double speaking hypocrisy does not surprise me at all considering the source.


Here is a quote from Phil Johnson as he once promoted an pro Spurgeon/anti modernity stance in contrast to this poster that seemingly pokes fun at "emergents" but reveals that they are FOR MODERNITY! LOL!

"Even if I lived well into my eighties, I could probably
post Spurgeon excerpts twice a week from now until I die and still not run out of material where Spurgeon was declaring his contempt for modernism. All of it would demonstrate conclusively that the various paradigm-shifts convulsing the evangelical movement today are nothing but recycled versions of the same old errors that were being foisted on church leaders by so-called "advanced thinkers" in the Victorian era. That movement ultimately grew stronger despite the opposition of Spurgeon and others like him. Modernism finally commandeered most of the mainstream denominations, then quickly piloted them to their demise." ~ Phil Johnson (source 2)

Here is a quote from Spurgeon against modernity:

"The school of modern thought laughs at the ridiculous positiveness of Reformers and Puritans; it is advancing in glorious liberality, and before long will publish a grand alliance between heaven and hell, or, rather, an amalgamation of the two establishments upon terms of mutual concession, allowing falsehood and truth to lie side by side, like the lion with the lamb." ~ Spurgeon ( Source 2)

Note the source is still Phil Johnson's now pro modernity blog?


Here is another quote against modernity from Pyromaniac's Phil Johnson:

"It's hard not to notice that Spurgeon was on the same side of all these issues—and he was saying exactly the same kinds of things—as those who are most troubled about the drift today. There's little question that Spurgeon would have appreciated and sympathized with "Slice of Laodicea"; he would have been scoffed at and derided as an intolerant "TR" ("Truly Reformed") by certain small-minded critics who apparently cannot imagine a more scathing insult; and he would have been mocked and dismissed by more "enlightened" minds who (in the name of
catholicity) reject and exclude every person who raises any biblical concern about the direction they want to go." ~ Phil Johnson

Again, with this poster Phil seems to have flipped flopped his position like Al Gore when he began to run with Bill Clinton, to now say by this poster that:

"Modernity now is alive and is a good thing because emergents are against it."

(*Phil never stated that other than what is implied by this poster.)

I wanted to thank CRNinfo for bringing this to my attention.

Source 1: Looks like the Spurgeon-followers finally got one right
Source 2: Pyromaniacs
Source 3: More Signs of the Times

Blessings,
iggy

The Pride of Evangelicalism: ‘Man Saves Man’ and Decisions Are The Plan: A Responose

I just read this post... The Pride of Evangelicalism: ‘Man Saves Man’ and Decisions Are The Plan


And my response is...

Huh?

When I was involved in the "seeker/purpose models... we never taught man can save man... salvation is and was and will always be of God....

Even more so I know of not one person who teaches this in the emerging conversation...

For all my years as an Evangelical Christian it has always been taught:

Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast."

This was taught in the Evangelical Church... and every church i have attended....

So, all I can say to this straw-man accusational post... is

HUH?

Be Blessed,
iggy

Paul the Pragmatist. or All Pragmatism is Wrong?

Philippians 1:15-18 (New International Version)


"It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."

Thanks to Tim Reed in the comments at CRNinfo

More on this topic later, just getting the creative juices flowing!

Blessings,
iggy

More on a day or prayer and fasting for ken Silva

This last week I have been praying about how to do the day of prayer and fasting for Ken Silva.

Originally the idea is that whether one is for him or sees that what he is doing is harming the Body of Christ, that we all pray a prayer of blessing.

The reasoning is that Jesus taught us to do so.

Luke 6: 27-31

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.”

Ken has decided to hate others and curse them… and in that mistreat them. I intend that Ken be blessed…

Here is the kicker on all this. If you agree with Ken then you have nothing to lose! In fact pray for him to be blessed immensely! I am in full agreement as for one to be blessed, from God they must be humbles by God to receive the blessings.

I am sincere in that I want Ken to be blessed… and I pray in all earnest that he receives the fullness of God’s best for him.

As far as a date to do this. I have not decided on one. In fact I sense that if I did pick one, someone will say I am being a hypocrite and showy in that I am letting everyone know I am doing this, yet I see a good thing in our uniting in this.

So, I am still praying on that note… yet I think at least this far I see next week that maybe we all can set aside a day and fast and pray for God to bless Ken Silva who has declared that many of us are his enemy and also that he is at war against our God… (Ken has stated that I am not saved and serve a different god… I may agree in the last part of that as I think I serve a different God from the one of wrath, war and hate that Ken seems to declare is sovereign.)

If you think that you want to join me in this and want to pick a specific date, email me. iggy@wwdb.org

Blessings,
iggy

A Planned day of prayer and fasting for Ken Silva... yep I'm serious!

A planned day of prayer and fasting for Ken Silva... yep I'm serious!



Ken was recently written about in Christianity today... CRN.info got the scoop. Which with Ken's comment...

"Since Christ gave it to me, then I say, the Lord be praised…. Have these people ever considered that the anger coming through me as a pastor-teacher sent by the Lord just might not actually be my own?"


It got me thinking... I am convinced that Ken has gone off the deep end. He needs serious prayer. I am asking that you take this week to pray about it (as I will be gone fishing!) then contact me and let's get a day set up to set it aside for prayer and fasting for Ken Silva.

Blessings,
iggy

MacArthurite Values: More Fun!

(Update: Please join me in ending this "war"... join myself and others in a day of fasting and praying for Ken Silva Tuesday the 28th of August.)

Here are some more links for more info:

Link 1
Link 2