Online Discernmentalist Mafia Products

OK, The success of the ODMafia got me thinking. Why not merchandise it? LOL!

Now you can get your Spurgeon Coffee mug and show off you love for the Spurg.

Proceeds go to iggyROCKS!

We do more than play music. We also have adopted a pastor in Mauritus. Help us send books and other helpful items to Pastor Jean Claude.

Hopefully we will be able to expand more and help others.

Be blessed,
iggy

Coming soon, the Luther's Stein

Gospel of Jesus Christ or Gospel of Spurgeon?

Now, before anyone thinks this is a "I hate Spurgeon!" rant it is not. I do not "hate" Spurgeon. In fact I enjoy some of his sermons and writing, though I disagree with some also. Spurgeon was just a man.

I found one of these the other day. It is a 1 billion dollar bill and it poses the question on the back:

"The billion dollar question: Will you go to Heaven? Here's a quick test. Have you ever told a lie, stolen anything, or used God's name in vain? Jesus said, "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart." Have you looked with lust? Will you be guilty on Judgment Day? If you have done those things God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. The Bible warns that if you are guilty you will end up in Hell. That's not God's will. He sent His Son to suffer and die on the cross for you. Jesus took your punishment upon Himself -"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Then He rose from the dead and defeated death. Please, repent (turn from sin) today and trust in Jesus, and God will grant you everlasting life. Then read your Bible daily and obey it. "

Now, this is the question and Jesus is the answer, why is Spurgeon on the dollar and not Jesus? Also, Jesus overcame sin and death... God sent His Son to redeem an already condemned world. In the message I really do not have much disagreement. Yet, to see Spurgeon's image when it was Jesus on the Cross and who rose from the dead is a bit... well... strange. The other question is why was this in a newspaper rack in front of a casino... and how effective is this method?

Any thoughts?

iggy

Do we live by "Christianity" or by Jesus.

I have to wonder at some of critics that are out there.

I have seen these things.

1. A person write against Erwin McManus' "the Barbarian Way" as he took the side of the civilized religionist... proudly!
2. A person add to statements so that they fit their critic...
3. People who lift up foul mouthed reformers like Martin Luther then attack Mark Driscoll. (Martin Luther like to use colorful scatological language.)
4. People who when challenged for their teaching as being biblical quote Spurgeon to prove it is!
5. People who condemn me for "playing down heaven and hell" and that the Gospel is all about "me"... I have to laugh as it is them who say "I got saved so I will not go to Hell and I get to go to Heaven"... I state that God came through Jesus to preach the Kingdom of God and that I am privileged to be called and enter into His Kingdom. Heaven is a by product of the big picture God is doing... and so is my salvation... so I am wondering... were is this all about me. Yet, it seems that many do accuse myself and others, then turn around and preach a "me-driven" gospel themselves! The focus of Christianity is not me, but Jesus Christ.

Now, here is the big difference that I see and it is summed up it this quote by Chris P.

"I believe that Mike’s point is that the majority of those claiming christianity, which is a religion btw, are not necessarily true saints."

Notice that "Christianity is a religion to Chris and if you look at the other examples that seems to be the consensus of this group! It is not a relationship with God through the death, burial and resurrection of His Son Jesus and then being filled with the Holy Spirit! Nope, it is a religion that is civilized and controllable and that can be understood by mere human reasoning.

They worship a controlled God of their own vain imaginations!

Then they accuse others of being me-based, when their whole religion is the same as the Pharisees who thought they could get God to move by their strict obedience to the Law.

God is sovereign and in no way impressed with man's religion. He is impressed only with His Son and those who depend totally on Jesus for salvation.

Be Blessed,
iggy

I am told I hate, I warn in Love...

The Religionist sees the warnings of his folly as hate, yet it is love that drives a man to face those who oppose him so that God will be glorified in the Religionists turning...

Tozer wrote of a warning in the Pursiut of God to the relgionist to not see that resting on ones justification and thinking that union with God is the end of all things. “We have been snared in the coils of a spurious logic which insists that if we have found Him, we need no more seek Him” Yet, to find God or to be found by God, is not the end of our relationship with God. We need to still press in to His Heart. Or as Tozer also states, "To have found God and still to pursue Him is the Soul’s paradox of love, scorned indeed by the too easily satisfied religionist, but justified in happy experience by the children of the burning heart”.

The Religionist thinks in his "rationalist mind" that once he has found Jesus he then has no need and can learn doctrines which then replace Jesus... This is subtle and dangerous... for doctrines are useless to a man if a man depends on them for salvation... For it is Christ Jesus Who is the foundation of anything built by a believer which must be built on. A Religionist will fight for his doctrine over the very Grace and Mercy of God... even forsaking the Ministry of Reconciliation to appease his own desires to justify himself before other men... for he does not fear God. If he did he would turn in great wonder and lament in his own works and rejoice in the Coming of his salvation.

The Religionist only hears his own thunder... it echos and he likes that he can hear himself... He loves it more when others join in his thunder as this feeds his ego.

The Religionst proudly calls himself a Religionist... as he should and pride is second nature to him. He cares little for the feelings of others. He cares only that he hears "Amen's" to his voice... even if in his heart he fears he may be wrong! Yet, pride blinds him from guenuine love... and if he rebukes you... it is like an abusive father who beats his children in his anger.

A religionist does have one good thing. He drives the True Believer from his church... and his "truth". He drives him farther away into the very arms of our Savior... In that the rebuke will only one day be laid at the feet of the Religionist... not as a prize but as retribution for causing harm to one of His Little Ones...

Again, if a Religionist read this he sees himself, yet will only go and justify himself and deceived weak willed women to his persuasive arguments...

Before a Religionist accuses me and states i am a hypocrite... I might remind him that the rebuke I give is the rebuke that every great Christian preacher has stated before. To stand against this rebuke is to stand against Spurgeon, Tozer, Paul and Jesus Himself.

Blessings,

iggy

Great Quotes: Spurgeon on Religionists

We are sure that the gospel we have preached is not after men, because men do not take to it. It is opposed even to this day. If anything is hated bitterly, it is the out-and-out gospel of the grace of God, especially if that hateful word "SOVEREIGNTY" is mentioned with it.

Dare to say "He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, and he will have compassion on whom he will have compassion" [Romans 9:15], and furious critics will revile you without stint.
The modern religionist not only hates the doctrine of sovereign grace, but he raves & rages at the mention of it. He would sooner hear you blaspheme than preach election by the Father, atonement by the Son, or regeneration by the Spirit. If you want to see a man worked up till the Satanic is clearly uppermost, let some of the new divines hear you preach a free-grace sermon. ~ "Sovereign Grace" Hated by the Modern Religionist!~ by C. H. SPURGEON


There are others in this world to whom Christ is something, but not much. They are anxious to save themselves, but since they must confess some imperfections they use the merits of Christ as a sort of makeweight for their slight deficiencies. Their robe is almost long enough, and by adding a little fringe of the Redeemer's grace it becomes all they can wish. To say prayers, to go to church, to take the sacrament to observe Good Friday, these are the main reliances of many a religionist, and then if the coach sticks a little in a deeper rut than usual they call in the help of the Lord Jesus, and hope that he will put his shoulder to the wheel. They commonly say, "Well, we must do our best, then Christ will be our Savior, and God is very merciful." They allow the blessed and all-sufficient work and sacrifice of the Savior to fill up their failures; and imagine that they are extremely humble in allowing so much as that. Jesus is to them a stopgap, and nothing more. I know not whether the condition of such people is one whit more desirable than that of those to whom Jesus is nothing at all, for this is a vile contempt and despising of Christ indeed, to think that he came to help you to save yourselves, to dream that he is a part Savior, and will divide the world; and honor of salvation with the sinner. Those who yoke the sinner and the Savior together as each doing a part rob Christ of all his glory; and this is robbery indeed, to pilfer from the bleeding Lamb of God the due reward of his agonies. "He trod the winepress alone, and of the people there was none with him." In the work of salvation Jesus stands alone. Salvation is of the Lord. It Christ is not all to you he is nothing to you. He will never go into partnership as a part Savior of men. If he be something he must be everything, and if he be not everything he is nothing to you. ~ Christ Is All by C. H. SPURGEON

Why I am not a Calvinist PT 1

Why I am not a Calvinist. Pt 1

Before I start this critique of Phil Johnson’s "Why I am a Calvinist" I want to say I do not consider Calvinists as heretics or anything that would imply that to be one is not to be saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ.

I will say I do not agree with certain assertions made by Calvinist to “prove” their doctrine… in fact I see many things taught in Calvinism that run contrary to the teachings of scripture.

Phil Johnson did a series on Calvinism and I thought I might do a response to each part of the series… yet it seems that it is just another shallow overview of a “modernize” version of Calvinism. So I almost view it a waste of time to go over it point by point.

I will go over certain teaching within Calvinism that are of its foundation and I think one will see that it is not base entirely on proper scriptural teachings.

Again, I have many friends who I respect greatly that are Calvinist… yet I have had the most vicious attacks against me from the Calvinist camp….

So the first reason I am not a Calvinist is that I see that systematic theology was not taught by Paul as many assert. In fact if you read Paul faithfully, Paul is a “task theologian”… which meant he met with a task and sought how to deal with it through the Revelation he received from Jesus.

To say that God’s Gospel is Calvinism as Spurgeon stated is really a huge claim… and if Calvinism errored in any fashion then that claim would be false and that gospel would not be the true Gospel. So, humbly must be met as we look at our own theological bent.

For years I tried to take what I saw in Scripture and see which view I best fit into… that is really a mistake as if scripture differs at one’s theological points then there must be an issue in that theology.

To say that God has a tight system and that it must fit perfectly together is a bit of a stretch. In fact I hold that as suspect as it seems that one must pull out of the Bible theology and in that interpret it… and then to fit it into a theological system… means that if something does not fit…one must bend and twist it until it does. And if it does not ignore it or deny it.

I see this at a few points in Calvinism as I see that God is bigger than a “system”. I have heard and read many, many sermons and teachings about God’s sovereignty…l in which I agree He is… how it works is a manner of opinion and speculation as we mere men’s ways are not God’s ways. (Isaiah 55:8)

If the system is as the Calvinist states perfect and then God must submit to the system of Calvinism. So, then we have a God that is submissive and not Sovereign.
Also I see that if God made such a system that saves it would in its nature be that one must meet the conditions of the system and then at that we have a works oriented system of salvation. For it becomes the very thing that saves us is our belief in the system. The system then demands that its Legal qualities be done perfectly. For you see God did have a system in place and Moses gave it to the Israelites. And that system we already had forgiveness of sins… and most people miss that… in fact that is what most people see the Gospel entirely is… which it is much more… in fact that idea forgets the Resurrection by which we are saved.

In Calvinism we see that without realizing it… denies that one is saved by Grace as it says it teaches. It is a return to works in the sense IF one sees God’s works his own and not Gods alone. Many teach this in Calvinism, yet miss that if one denies one point, then they will be considered out of the system… then out of the will of God and at best suspect of not being Elect… or worse be labeled a heretic. So, as with the Law, one must tow the company line in order to be saved… and in that we negate the Blood of Jesus and replace it with the system that is supposed to support it in its very teachings.

Close your eyes if you want to...

Close your eyes if you want to...

"How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur?
Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?"
So, ignore this transition if you want to, and treat it like a phase if you want to. I think you'll miss one of the most exciting times in anyone's memory.

Here's how I think about it: Imagine yourself a Roman Catholic monk in say 1510, in Germany or Austria or England or Switzerland. The world is about to change. The institutions and theologies that have sustained and nourished your faith are about to be challenged. Jon Huss has already been burned at the stake, and a fellow named Martin Luther is beginning to think some dangerous thoughts. Your institutions are bastardizing themselves (if not through indulgences, then through TV/radio evangelists, the religious right, and other fear-based fundraising machines). How do you want to posture yourself for the spiritual re-formation that is about to occur? Do you want to study the fine art of inquisition in order to repress the emerging culture?

Or maybe simply observe it, uninvolved? Critique it, feeling smug, as if only "they" are in danger, and not also "us"? Tame it, trying to neuter it and co- opt it into a gentle, incremental evolution (and so preserve our modern structures, etc.) instead of a radical, energetic innovation? Or help lead it, passionate, involved?

Something to think about.

You can guess where my heart is." Brian Mclaren


Now re-read the post before this by Spurgeon.


Blessings,
iggy

Spurgeon would have been an "emergent".

Spurgeon would have been an "emergent". ; )

"We admire a man who was firm in the faith, say four hundred years ago...but such a man today is a nuisance, and must be put down...Yet imagine in those ages past, Luther, Zwingle, Calvin, and their compeers had said, 'The world is out of order; but if we try to set it right we shall only make a great row, and get ourselves into disgrace. Let us go to our chambers, put on our night-caps, and sleep over the bad times, and perhaps when we wake up things will have grown better.' Such conduct on their part would have entailed upon us a heritage of error. Age after age would have gone down into the infernal deeps, and the pestiferous bogs of error would have swallowed all. These men loved the faith and the name of Jesus too well to see them trampled on.

"It is today as it was in the Reformers days. Decision is needed. Here is the day for the man, where is the man for the day? we who have had the gospel passed to us by martyr hands dare not triffle with it, nor sit by and hear it denied by traitors, who pretend to love it, but inwardly abhor every line of it...Look you sirs, there are ages yet to come. If the Lord does not speedily appear, there will come another generation, and another, and all these generations will be tainted and injured if we are not faithful to God and to His truth today. We have come to a turning point in the road. If we turn to the right mayhap our children and our children's children will go that way; but if we turn to the left, generations yet unborn will curse our names for having been unfaithful to God and to His Word."C.H.S., Sermons, 1888, 83-84

It seems that the idea that the Reformation is not done was held by one of the greatest Calvinist himself.

(Update May 13, 2007: I noticed a bit of traffic to this post and wanted to point out that in case anyone missed it, this is posted under "fun" "humor", and "satire"... which makes me really wonder at the mean and nasty comments I received on it... It does though seem to point out as I stated that Spurgeon viewed that reformed theology was not "finished" but was still in process which is what many of the emerging conversation still believe. Yet, even with Spurgeon saying this, and emerging person agreeing, we are still deemed wrong about it. I will not state the obvious on that other than if someones view does not fit certain peoples views and theology they do seem to get mean and nasty... while I think the scripture is clear to bear with patience those who we see need to grow more in their faith... in that I will stand here and bear with patience those who seem to have no humor, and are more out to prove their self right is more right than mine. Theirs is a one-sided argument as I stand with Luther's quote:

"I shall never be a heretic; I may err in dispute, but I do not wish to decide anything finally; on the other hand, I am not bound by the opinions of men. "

Though I am not a Calvinist nor Baptist, I could easily exchange "emergent/Vineyard" or any other label I may hold; so I to hold to the spirit of this Spurgeon quote:

"I AM NEVER ASHAMED TO AVOW MYSELF A CALVINIST; I DO NOT HESITATE TO TAKE THE NAME OF BAPTIST; BUT IF I AM ASKED WHAT IS MY CREED, I REPLY —
"IT IS JESUS CHRIST."

I stand first and foremost on Jesus Christ. In that I stand on the side of Peace.)

Regeneration does not precede faith…

Regeneration does not precede faith…

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -Titus 3:5-7


How can it?

Once one actually notices the context of Titus 3:5-7 one should notice that one must be saved first to be regenerated… notice the first three words of the paragraph.



“He saved us.”

This is written to those who are already saved, not to those who need to get saved.
To say one must have a regenerate mind to receive the salvation gets things so out of whack… it is saying one must somehow get saved… before getting saved!

This is a teaching widely spread and is accepted. Yet, if one bothered to read the passage one might actually see the great salvation of our Great God!

We are saved by Grace…

By Faith…

Not of works…

It is Faith that is a gift… given to us that enables us to turn, we still must come to Christ and be regenerated as we must first receive the Holy Spirit to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. If one has not yet been filled by the Holy Spirit then how can they be regenerated? Only after one come to Christ Jesus will they be regenerated and renewed by the Holy Spirit.

Note also these same people often teach of the wrath of God at the expense of God’s great grace… yet in the verses just before Titus 3:5-7 it is stated in verses 1 -4:

“Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,”

We are to be ready to do good works… to speak evil of no man… and to live after the kindness and love of God our Saviour. It is God’s kindness that leads us to repentance… not His wrath nor regeneration.

We cannot be regenerated of our spirit if one has not yet received the Holy Spirit Who does the work or regeneration. That is why man must acknowledge his sin nature and turn to God for salvation. Until that takes place and pride is removed… only when man humbly bends his knee and cries out “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” The God will now act upon the faith He gave for one to cry out for deliverance… only then will He deliver and give New Life… only then can man enter in through the Kindness of God’s Merciful Grace… only then will man be given the Spirit of Life that is the regeneration of our Spirit, only then by Grace do we then mover forward to conform to the Image of Jesus… only then do we be transformed by the renewing of our mind…


To say one is regenerate before salvation is heresy upon heresy as it negates the Blood of Jesus. For what value then is it if man is regenerate with out the washing of the Blood of our sins?

Again, some appeal to Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin all mighty men of God in their way… but even men of great knowledge fall prey to prove their doctrine at the expense of what the bible actually teaches. Salvation is a process and it seems some teach that regeneration can come before the process even begins.


Pray we do not fall victim this error… and lead someone to receiving the Holy Spirit before they have even turned to God. That would be just foolishness. The Spirit woos but has yet to indwell… and then we are regenerated by Him.

Faith is the gift to see in a moment our sin, and to also see the kindness of God in Christ Jesus... it is then at that moment we receive the gift of Faith by Grace... It is trusting at that moment that even though we cannot see who we are to be, we still trust that God will be faithful to do it, and after that regeneration begins. Regeneration is coming into New Life in Christ... one cannot come into that Life before they come into His Life... It is again nonsensical.

Faith is more about God's faithfulness to us than what some call our own faith. Salvation is offered by Grace. In that we respond to knowledge that God has done all for us at the Cross by His Blood... and in His death and Resurrection. We must accept that we do nothing except fall at His feet to be saved. For, just as Jesus must be our very Life... He is our only Salvation. The just shall live by faith... we are justified at the Cross and saved by His Blood, and Live by His Life giving Spirit.

So, again, all one needs to do is read three little words that sum up the issue... "He saved us".

Blessings,
iggy

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The Encouragement of Silent Contemplation from The strangest places...

The Church would soon be healed of her sorrows, and delivered of her divisions, if she would for a while be silent; but the voice of a favourite teacher is heard by some, and the voice of another master in Israel is listened to by others, and so God's voice is lost amid the clamour of sects and the uproar of parties.

Oh, that the Church would sit at Jesus' feet, lay aside her prejudices, and take the Word in its simplicity and integrity, and accept what God the Lord only declares to be the truth. I invite the members of this church, and urge the members of all the churches to see this, that we cry unto the Lord for a blessed silence in His presence, till we sit like servants waiting for the Master's word, and stand like watchmen waiting for the Master's coming. Lord send that solemn silence over all your people now.

"When sheep stop their bleating and listen - maybe then - they'll hear their Shepherd's voice and do what He says!"- Anon

Words, words, words: we have so many words, and they are chaff, but where is THE WORD that in the beginning was God and was with God? That Word is the living and incorruptible seed. We want less of the words of man, and more off Him who is the very Word of God. BE QUIET and let Jesus speak. Be silent, that you may hear the voice of Jesus, for when He speaks your strength will be renewed. The eternal Spirit is with His people, but we often miss His power because we give more ear to other voices than His, and quite often our own voice is an injury to us, for it is heard when we have received no message from the Lord, and therefore gives an uncertain sound. If we wait upon the blessed Spirit, His mysterious influence will sway us most divinely, and we shall be filled with all the fullness of God.

Our strength will be renewed, if in silence we yield up to God all our own wisdom and strength. Brethren, I never am so full as when I am empty; I have never been so strong as in the extremity of weakness. The source of our worst weakness is our home-born strength, and the source of our worst folly is our personal wisdom.

Lord help us to be still till we have abandoned ourselves, till we have said, Lord, our ways of working cannot be compared with Your ways of working; teach us how to work; Lord, our judgements are weak compared with Your perfect judgement; we are fools, be our teacher and guide in all things. Crush out of us our fancied strength. Break our folly like Jacob, for after this sort shall you renew your strength.

Keep silent, you saints, till you have recognized your folly and your weakness, and sit in blessed silence as servants waiting for the Master's Word. For when he speaks your strength will be renewed most gloriously. More than ever before let your inmost souls be filled with trust in the one that never changes.
- Charles H. Spurgeon

So with that go be still and listen to God... meditate on His word and seek His presence. Be filled with the Holy Spirit and go forth in power!

Blessings,
iggy

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Slice of Laodicea is not gone, just moved...

Slice of Laodicea is not gone just moved.

I was looking at my own stats and found a post rejoicing at the closing of SOL... and yes the old site is gone... so for a moment there was silence and some rejoiced and then... it appeared in another form...

Yep SHE'S BACK!


So so much for that cool refreshing breath of fresh air...

She promises to also move the archives of the old Slice soon... so we can glory and revel in all the old days of hatred and judgementalism and condemnation that made the old Slice have that familiar smell.


Oh, we will most probably never know the "truth". At least that is one thing for sure! Now exchange Old Slice for New Slice... Yet, maybe this is a marketing ploy and Ingrid will return and we will have "Classic Slice"! But don't worry all you hater fans, there will be a new, new site open soon!


So beware, the hate is still there... Ingrid will still pormote her "modernist Christianity" as she says,

"This blog contains thought provoking articles and links for Christians
concerned about the state of the modern church."

(I thought Spurgeon was agin dat dern modernity stuff.)


So pray with me as Jesus did in John 17:22 - 23 "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." (NIV)

May the hate stop and we seek Unity in Christ Jesus... as He prayed... so let it be...

Blessings,
iggy

BTW If someone thinks I am being too hard on the SOL people you should read this... it speaks of the sort of harrasment that myself and others have been under by people like SOL, being Ingred, Ken Silva and the local "disciple" of Ken Silva, Phil Perkins... This is their fruit... and it stinks... and like anything that foul.. it is usually able to bob back up again.

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Something that made me go hmmm....The SOL and Al-Quaida connection!

(This is meant as a humor piece so if it is not funny to you, you may not have a sense of humor!)

I was looking at the newspaper today and read an article that made me go hmmm…

Here is the quote that made think a bit.



“Al-Qaida‘s deputy leader has criticized Palestinian and other Arab leaders, accusing them of betraying Islam and collaborating with the United States and Israel , according to an Internet statement posted in his name Monday.”



As I read this I had a thought that made me chuckle…



What if I changed the names?



“Slice of Laodicea leader has criticized emergent and other emerging movement leaders, accusing them of betraying Christianity and collaborating with the Catholics and non Christians, according to an Internet statement posted in his name Monday.”



Now SOL is not a terrorist group, (well maybe that is to be debated) and the emerging church is not one either. Yet, it seems as if the same sorts of tactics are used by Al-Quaida and SOL… and that made me go Hmmm…





You see Hamas has been open to talk to Israel and the US as they are tired of lobbing bombs at each other. In a way they are working on a solution to end the hatred… (I know Hamas is a terrorist group but to even think they are moving in that direction… even thinking about is an amazing thing.)



Of course to the Jihadists, America is the devil… and anyone who has anything to do with them is against Islam. SOL paints anyone who does not think like them as the Devil…



In an attempt to preserve “truth” these people lie, slander, and harassing others to “bully” them to “repent” and come to “truth” as they see it. There is no compromise (except for the lying, slandering, harassing others to bully them to repent) so one must come to be totally in line with their thinking which is really hard to actually find one that does not contradict the other! One teaches the “exchanged Life” (as I do) then will rail against myself and others as to being false teachers. Then one will up lift Spurgeon to prove their point. (appealing to a Spurgeon quote seems to be equal with quoting scripture to these people!) One will teach Jesus is literally “the Way, the Truth, and the Life” and the other will condemn me and others for teaching that same thing?!? They contradict each other and yet are united…



I pondered that a bit and realized that the one thing a terrorist will have is hate. Hatred for the “other” is the uniting factor for these people also. The more I try to show how “Christian” I am, the more they mock and attack and lie and slander and harrass. One will teach that you do not need a relationship with Jesus to be saved, and will say we are saved by doctrines and creeds… yet another will come and encourage him as he is “being attacked” over his stand against the emerging church. (Totally oblivious that his rhetoric and hate filled words toward the leadership in his own denomination has brought heat on himself. I mean how would you respond to a letter that calls you a heretic and coward? And that is the nicer things he called this person!) BTW a “haughty, snooty holier than thou” attitude must be mandatory for these people not to mention the pride they show in their zealousness to show how much of a heretic others are. Humility and grace is something I have not experienced once from these people… the saddest was my experience talking to Steve Camp as I was a fan of his years ago… and he could no see that he was being abusive. I received many emails from people who agreed with me and thanked me for what I said to Steve about his abusiveness.



I see the uniting factor is not Jesus, or love, but hate. I was called a heretic because I have “link to Brian McLaren’s website”. I am not sure where that verse is in the Bible… “Though shalt not link to Brian McLaren…”



This is truly a sad thing… and as I have repeatedly stated these people have somehow justified themselves that they now can judge and condemn others… and still think they are extending grace to you, to me or anyone. Personally I have not seen it at all.



In the end, it is like SOL and the people associated are like the terrorists. Unless one is in line with their hate, then they are not to be trusted. If they are in line with their hate, then it does not matter what they truly believe or not.



Blessings?

iggy

(BTW this was all tongue in cheek and if you don't see youself in this post it is not about you... that could be beause the god of this world has blinded you and you are self decieved... or you are not and all is well and you are in harmony with God and are our doing your vocation of being the image bearer and preaching the Godspel of the Kingdom and sharing the ministy of reconciliation... again if it is about you... you will most probably get angry and lose you self control and want to slander and bear false witness and all sorts of things that are not of the fruit of the Holy Spirit!)

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My last words to my HYPER CRITICS

(I hope that one will realize that much of this is no longer an issue to me. The people who did most of the initial attack have dropped off the map or have gone on to discredit themselves by losing jobs in their attacking of me and others. I hope the reader will not just read this post but go on to read other things I have written.)

I find it rather strange how some will demand perfect doctrine from others…

Recently I received a post I did not let through because the person is so full of hate towards the emerging church and myself I just saw it as not healthy for the discussions going on… I am sure if one wants to read what this person says and they read my blog they will put 2 and 2 together… and know who he is… In fact I am reluctant to even post this as I am sure he will be perversely encouraged that he has gotten a raise out of me. Yet, in fact he has not… I did want to point out as I have at time before some basic things about this blog.

It is now a chronicle of over two year’s journey of my faith. So I hope one might see:
1. I may have grown over that time
2. That I might have written something once and then have either sharpened the original thought or even have changed my mind
3. Written something and not “notated” a source ( this is a blog not a doctorate thesis btw)
4. Written something in hopes to be controversial to spark a discussion.
5. Written something that I hoped would cause some to think and dig deeper.
6. I hope that one would realize I do not want anyone to just take my word on things but search out what God says. (Be like the Bereans!)
7. I have written some things and tried to be open, honest and even vulnerable… in that I have been called a liar… Yet, I am only a human with frailties so please don’t expect me to be perfect… only God is perfect.
8. I may not have fully developed a thought, but omission does not mean I am a heretic… but it does mean someone who is HYPER critical of me may not have all the facts!

9. In areas of Theology I admit fully I am looking at many things and thoughts. If I quote Barth or Spurgeon it does not mean I approve 100% of their thoughts or ideas. This goes for MacArthur or McLaren as well.

On the Bible I am accused of not believing in inerrancy of the Bible.

I am certain that the original manuscripts were without error… yet any scholar or basic bible student will know that we do not have those original hand written manuscripts or can verify if we do that that is the one that Peter or John hand wrote themselves… we do have thousands and thousands of manuscripts that allow me to be certain that what we have is God’s written word. Yet as I read scripture I see that Mark will say Jesus said something and quote Him and in Matthew or Luke Jesus will be quoted just a bit different. Some will say that it is because Jesus may have said it one way in one place and another in yet another place… yet that is never stated in the Bible and is pure speculation. I see though that the core of the statement is intact and the intent of the teaching or statement is most important than the exact quote. I do not believe in an “inspired translation” only inspired “original” manuscripts… I do hold that the bible is God’s written word and does hold authority… Yet even saying that the authority is there only because Jesus is the Living Word. Without Jesus as the LIVING WORD to back up what is taught in the Bible, it would not have any authority. Authority is only given by a person… and words on a page do not have authority in themselves. That is what set Jesus’ teachings from the other Rabbi’s in His day… He taught with authority. Though I have not stated all of this in one place if one reads everything I have written (even the comments!) one will see that this is true and consistent. I recommend also reading the article I link to as it will go further than I may have in explaining my position on some things. Though on occasion I am relating an article to draw out more conversation from my readership.

What I see most from those who critique me, is that they will pull a partial sentence or statement and go, “I got you!” then use that to prove I have lied… or have taught false doctrine. That is why I have no problem when I do let a hyper critical person post a comment of giving their blogs address even when they are too cowardly to post their own links to their blogs. I know my readers are more sophisticated than these guys realize.

I have let their posts through to show their true love for me and others. Of course that is tongue in cheek I had hoped they will read themselves and realize they are not being Christ like… yet it seems to not work so I may be changing that very soon and not letting any HYPER CRITCAL voices through as they do not add to a conversation but distract and divide and are often abusive which is not edifying to me, and especially my readership. I will let those who disagree with me… respectfully… post and will be glad to clarify/work through/ pray with/ and anything else we can do in order to fellowship and edify each other.

Steve is a new commenter on my blog and in the recent postings on John MacArthur has pointed out I am misrepresenting JM… We may disagree and soon I am sure I will be off the JM kick and on to better things. Yet, Steve has been a shining example of respect and gentleness. He has been very Christ-like and I truly appreciate his thoughts. I have even gone over things even more closely and have tried to be open to all sides. In Fact I have stated I agree with JM on many things.



(I have said that many of the critics of JM are not accurate especially Ryrie who is one of the harsher critics of JM and goes way overboard in trying to discredit JM. Again I am not out to discredit JM but I am looking at his doctrinal statements as he has the EC and I am finding things I do not agree with.)

If someone wants to discredit someone (which seems a bit weird someone would be so fascinated by me and hate me so much to try to harm me and my ministry) they can find much I am sure… If one of my critics was not so cowardly and had opened his life to his readers (instead of his perverted version of mine) I am sure anyone could go post by post, line by line and construct heresy and false doctrine from him also… in fact he is so busy saying things I have not said, or twisting things I have to mean totally the opposite I am not sure how he has time for much else in his life… but I guess we all have to have a hobby.

I am sure he will bring up the “little card that says I am a reverend” that was twisted by another critic that I was saying it “proved” I was one… In fact I said that tongue in cheek not knowing that person had no sense of humor… Then another person took it and went even farther with it… so here is the story and connection with UCMI (About UCMI) which I am ordained through. (Though I am still ordained through UCMI as I have no need to be now... I am active in the local Vineyard Church plant updated: 4/27/2007). My calling is not from man but God. I walk in the gift of “pastoring” for a pastor is that, a gift to edify and build up the Body.

These people state I am a fraudulent Reverend do to my connection with UCMI. I have explained why I connected with them which was to be able to be accountable as I was in the process of planting a church in Billings MT. UCMI was different than many of the “get ordained” sites as they had a few more things going for them. They had a school and a support system in which if I needed I could attend and talk to others in ministry as I see isolation is the major issue all churches today… it causes things like Ted Haggard and such to not be accountable. And I wanted to be accountable not just to my direct congregation… but to an outside source that could revoke my ordination if I strayed outside of preaching the gospel of Christ.

I was placed on a year’s probation, in which I could not do weddings… which I had no real interest in doing. In this time I was to fulfill certain ministry obligations such as “bear fruit” in some aspect and also pursue some educational recommendations. After the years probation in which I had gotten to know some of the people in leadership and such I was required as I am every year to submit my goals for the year and to show what I have already accomplished for that year. If one does not do this they will be put on "inactive status". I am still in "active status". They ask for support which would be 3% of what your ministry brings in... Which is about what most denominations require. They have never demanded nor told me I had to send money or lose my status. Over all I have been treated professionally even more so than when I was a Youth Pastor in a major denomination. I viewed them as a correspondence school… I never cared about accreditation as I see things much like Moody did (he declined ordination as he believed he did not need man’s approval on his calling) I agreed and again, I did it not for approval, but for accountability. The accreditation was not that important to me as I know that many major denominations are not accredited and have produced some top teachers and preachers… such as Calvary Chapel. Many denominations ordain within their own denomination and have non accredited schools… I will say that as I looked into UCMI “accreditation's” I think that they are not trying to be dishonest, but rather be honest and show they are accredited… yet I think those that have may not be that great of “accreditors”. Again, I do not believe this is out of dishonesty rather it may be just bad judgment and would be better to just say they are not accredited. I say this as I have gotten to know the people and know that God is using them… I do not see them as “con men”. People make mistakes and to one HYPER CRITIC's credit he has given me at least that benefit of the doubt… in which I do not rule out any possibility that I could be duped. I really do not believe this to be so.

As far as “the little card that says I am a Rev.” I received the card after the year’s probation… I never “paid for it” and I receive a new one as I renew my ordination… which does not cost me more than the time to fill out the annual report I am required to do every year. (This quote about the card was stated as a bit of a joke on my part and then taken to mean something entirely different... that the card somehow qualified me to have more credentials...LOL! since I no longer have a card and am active in the Vineyard this is all really mute)

Again, I have not even sent in for a “parchment” nor have ever thought I needed one. In fact I see that I have received much more from UCMI than I have ever given… which is sad to say not much as income has not been a stable thing for my family. These critics argument would be like me saying I did not agree with the SBC so did not accept any ordinations their fellowships gave to their Pastors. It is based only on that these people do not see UCMI as credible.

In the 6 years I have been an official ministry… (Word of Mouth Ministries) I have received only $540 total… any other cost has come out of my own BTW as far as a registered ministry WoMM is registered as a ministry in Montana (we have a EIN). It is not registered as a non profit (though we make no profit) or rather we do not have 501(c)3. Again, I have been up front with that.

I have never used my ordination for personal gain… I had it on my page just because I am proud of the fact of my calling. Yet since then things have changed… and were changing at the time these HYPER CRITCS began their attack on my character.

I met Allen Hodges of Vineyard and we have become good friends. I have shown him the “blogs” and he has laughed… I am at present an Intern in the Billings Vineyard Church. I am on the leadership team… neither of these are positions I have pursued… they have been offered to me by Allen. As a new fellowship we have been growing steadily and have just moved into a building after meeting at Allen’s house. There are some really exciting things happening. I see God moving in a mighty way. I have dropped the “ordination” for two reasons.
I am not planting a church so am not in the one as far as position
I am “pastoring” but have not been given the “title” from Vineyard, so will not us that “title” in that way. I am still an ordained “minister” in good standing with UCMI.

As far as education, I have always been up front I do not have much formal education and what I do have, I would never brag about. I have never studied nor claim to have studied Greek… I always point out I am using a Strong’s Concordance… I also have friends who have M. div and Dr Div in which I have run past some of the things I do talk about using Greek or Hebrew… With that if they disagree I will usually not write about the topic until I work out the kinks a bit more… of the things like “Ekklesia” I have talked extensively with my friends with higher education and have gotten enthusiastic thumbs up. (One is a SBC pastor who is not in the EC). The issue is that one person thinks that I add too much to the word Ekklesia as I see it as defined as “Called out Ones” or “Ones Called out to Perfection”, disagrees with the latter as he does not see "perfection" connected to the word “ekklesia” in the Greek… I do and others do… I veiw the Church being Christ's Body a Living Organism... as Christ Lives, so does His Body. I see that in the "ek" part of the "ekklesia" which is:

Strong's Ref. # 1537
Romanized ekPronounced ek
a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):
KJV--after, among, X are, at, betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with(-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

This is from Strong's definitions... and I see in that portion of the word the "higher calling" that Jesus used the word to mean something more akin to "perfection". This is a richer word than "a meeting place". Even if one may not agree with that being specific in it's meaning, the rest of Scripture teaches that we are called to that very purpose, to be perfected in Christ.

These guys get much nastier than this simple disagreement… I often wonder if they think that they are fighting against flesh and blood by using the worldly weapons to attack me with.

I have pointed out one of these people denies that a relationship is needed to be saved. He is a false teacher if he teaches that and JM would not agree at all. Yet, his word is believed over mine because he is aligned with people at SOL.

I have publicly forgiven both these men in their slander… and will continue to. I will also continue to pray for them as I see that they are sincere in their belief they need to defend God… I do not hate these men… I do get frustrated in having to give defense… in that this will be the last time I address them, unless they repent from trying to harm me and apologize for their sin. For me I will live at peace with them the best I can and walk in Christ’s forgiveness for the power to forgive them. I will not address them if they continue to lie and slander me… in that I turn them over to God to deal with them.

Please in no way think this means I am censoring people because I disagree with them. The issue is that these people no matter what I say just plain hate me for whatever reason… I believe even if I was to “repent” and begin to believe and act like them, they would still call me a liar. So, I don’t think engaging THEM is of any real value or edifies the Body of Christ is a true manner. I do not have an issue with disagreement. In fact I enjoy “friendly” debates and think discussion on theology as challenging and fun… I do not care for name calling... (Which I know I am guilty of and have apologized for in the past… and will again as I am sure I will inadvertently do it again…. As I said I am just a human being and not perfect!) But I will not keep engaging in these peoples open sin and rebellion against the scriptures prohibition concerning judging others not will I allow myself to be pulled into defending myself again because of their slander and lies… they can contend with God on those things. I will continue to pray for them and I know that God is faithful and will finish the work He started in these men… I am content with God doing His works in and through them… according to His great will and purpose. If they want to know what I really do teach the blogger links below will connect one to all the (Answers to my Critics) I will not give them any more of my time or energy as I have greater things to do than try to show someone how "Christian" I am. I will not have anything to do with these divisive men. (Titus 3:10)

This next year I hope will be exciting and another growing experience. I have already begun studies on knowledge and will be posting those in the next month (Jan). I am also hoping to be able to take a class in Greek that my pastor will be teaching at Vineyard so pray for me as I have not had much luck learning other languages.

My prayer is to be a blessing to those who read my blog… and to grow in understanding in each other as we all grow in the Knowledge and Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Blessings,
iggy

Once You Had a Slice, Now Shunned and Sliced!

So occasionally I am SOL, though I have not had the privilege of being "blogspotted" I have commented on Slice of Laodicea to point out that though they call me a heretic and promote people who do not believe a personal relationship with Jesus is needed to be saved, I have commented on posts that promote the "exchanged life" there and not been let through. Officially I have not been shunned... just rejected... which does not bother me at all.

Today I found a great site! And I have been Sliced!

I just wanted to point out the first time I interacted with Ken Silva of the Slice of Laodicea.

First read his comments. Then read the post he is responding to... This has to be one of my most MacArthurish posts I have written... but I am just making things up... LOL!

I don't think Ken even read it... I think he was excited that he was "getting me" on SOL and wanted to let me know... He even pointed out a blog where you can read that this person rejects that Jesus is literally Truth! That is soooo un Spurgeon like!

So if you have been shunned by SOL... try Sliced Laodicea

Blessings,
iggy

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Update on the Last Post... Once again I am a heretic

Once again I am a heretic.

A while back before I decided to not engage certain men as they are nothing but divisive men out to quarrel and cause strife... (Proverbs 20:3, 2 Timothy 2:23, 2 Timothy 2:24, Titus 3:9) I went to SOL and made a comment. I am still paying for that misjudgment even today!

The last post was to affirm the incarnation that God became a man... And on SOL (in the comments) I am called a heretic... And why? It is over small "m" or big "M"... In using the word "man"...

Again this is how trivial these people are and so full of hate that grace is not even part of their lives...

I did post some comments back, and we will see if they post them... I am really trying to not engage, really! I am sure that was another mistake and if the reader can I hope you can learn from my mistakes! LOL!

It is so weird to me how much these so called "Christians" hate.

I affirm the incarnation and am a heretic according to Ray. It was a bit ironic after Ray gives me a lecture on capital "M" and small "m" in "man" he quotes this verse and misses entirely that the bible he cut and paste did not capitalize the word "man". Thus nulifying his own argument... which is again my point about these men... that is all they want... an argument. (Titus 3:9)


1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man (the Lord Jesus Christ)is the Lord from heaven.

This verse actually backups even more what I taught! LOL!

I teach Jesus is literally "the Way, the Truth, the Life" (Which Spurgeon did and these men hold him up) and I am a heretic according to Phil Perkins, who is being befriended by Ken Silva at SOL... Ken teaches:

"It is absolutely astounding that within the Church of Jesus Christ we have to have "in house" discussions about the subject of Truth! Well, pathetic would be more like it because Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the One we Christians claim to follow, literally said in front of eyewitnesses who faithfully recorded His Words "I Am the Truth" (John 14:6)." (Emphasis mine)

Phil Perkins denies this! He says Jesus only taught "propositionally"! Which means that Jesus only proposed He was "the Way, the Truth, the Life".

Again, I am the heretic? Once again, Jesus PROCLAIMED HE WAS "the Way, the Truth, the Life"! In fact Phil has many posts denying that Jesus was "literally" as He said, which puts him against what Ken teaches on his own blog! The fruit of these men are evident! It is fowl and rotting and not of Christ. They even contradict themselves... They are double minded! They are men who chase paper tigers and build strawmen to knock down... they are to be avoided.


If anything, pray that the spiritual blindness and bondage that holds these men captive is broken and they are set free, by the TRUTH who is the Person, Jesus Christ. Again, I do not care to join them in their un godily quarrelling, as I do not know what sort of desires they are battling... my desire is to serve the Lord and give Jesus Glory with all I am. (James 4:1)

Ephesians 6:24 Grace to all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with an undying love.

Blessings,
iggy

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Spurgeon was against Modernism…

Charles Haddon Spurgeon



Spurgeon was against Modernism…


Many of the emerging church are Calvinists… of which I am not one. I respect their view yet I do not see Calvinism as being a system that God can fit in… I see that God is much too great and complex for man to fit Him into a system.


On of the major Calvinist is Charles Spurgeon… known as the prince of Preachers. He was not educated by formal schools of education… smoked cigars… yet was truly more educated than some of his contemporaries. He was known for his huge library of books on many topics… Personally I think I would have like the guy… he seems real and raw… very much what we are looking at in the likes of some of the emergent preachers of today.
He was also one of the first to speak against modernism…and that it seems is where he and I do agree greatly.Here is an excerpt of his thoughts on modernism that so many seem to embrace today… especially my critics.


"[At the end of the Puritan age] by some means or other, first the ministers, then the Churches, got on "the down grade," and in some cases, the descent was rapid, and in all, very disastrous. In proportion as the ministers seceded from the old Puritan godliness of life, and the old Calvinistic form of doctrine, they commonly became less earnest and less simple in their preaching, more speculative and less spiritual in the matter of their discourses, and dwelt more on the moral teachings of the New Testament, than on the great central truths of revelation. Natural theology frequently took the place which the great truths of the gospel ought to have held, and the sermons became more and more Christless. Corresponding results in the character and life, first of the preachers and then of the people, were only too plainly apparent."


From the Spurgeon writings, The Sword and the Trowel


Here is more on the topic by John MacArthur… again not one of my favorites preachers as I see that he is also very much Calvinist in his views. I used to listen to him often, yet found again that Calvinism is a bit to simplified. I also view John MacArther’s view of Lordship salvation as a bit of a “duh”… Jesus is Lord of all… that would include even unbelievers… and one day they will bend their knee and confess him as Lord… but will that save them? In other words I am saying is I see that John has placed something extra that is already incorporated in the whole… it is something that is a given and really does not need to be emphasized. Besides Jesus told the disciples that they were his brothers… so yes, He is Lord… yet He is our brother… so Jesus’ focus was on relationship and not some Medieval Hierarchal structure that we have placed Him into.

(Granted I would have to say a lot more and this is just a real brief summary of John MacArther’s theology as I see John's view of Lordship salvation actually undermines the true Grace of God and causes one to perform works to prove their salvation instead of resting in Christ. Personally I think Spurgeon would be spinning over John's version of the Gospel and Calvinism.)


I am not against those who hold to Calvinism… I have good friends that hold to this system of theology. Which is part of the point of looking for common ground… In the emerging church Calvinists can discuss with Armenianism, and Anglicans and Charismatics with non charismatics… all with respect.


I see though that Spurgeon had the same concern that many of the emerging Church… myself included. Don't get me wrong, Spurgeon most probably would not have been for Postmodernism... that is not my point, but then again, most the emerging church is not for it also... (That is a gross misunderstanding). Yet I find it interesting that the critics of the emerging church use Spurgeon... and yet I have read, heard and even written myself much of the same concerns that Spurgeon espoused... seems a bit... hypocritical to me.
Spurgeon seemed to be more open to encouraging those that did not believe as he did than those who hold him up as the Prince of Preachers. I apprecieate his love for others in his hopes to spur them on in Christ.

He states in an article:

"SOME time ago we felt an intense desire to speak to the Society of Friends, hoping that it might be the Lord's will to arouse that most respectable community to greater energy and zeal. Our belief was, and still is, that it is the bounden duty of Friends in these perilous times to renew more distinctly their testimony against formalism, ritualism, and unspiritual worship in its many forms, and we hoped that a respectful brotherly admonition might be accepted by them and owned of God. Our doctrinal views widely differ, but on the vital point we are one."


Spurgeon was a charitable man who cared for his brothers in the Lord... and he looked for the higher points that bond us together in Christ. If one is to hold to Spurgeon as an example I hope that they would also latch onto his Spirit of unity and reconciliation.


Blessings,
iggy

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