What's on my reading list this year?

Currently reading Thomas Merton's Contemplative Prayer and realizing that some of the critics of contemplative prayer are rather... stupid and ignorant... Just saying... I am trying to be nice about this... really.

I plan on read all of the writings of Maj W Ian Thomas this year. I finally have them all... or at least most of them.

I have three books by Watchman Nee to read this year. I have read The Normal Christian Life before, but now since I also have Love Not the World and Sit, Walk, Stand I think reading them all together will be fun.

I need to finish John Stott's book on Ephesians (not pictured) but thought that I should also read his Basic Christianity to get a feeling for his theological positions.

I am throwing in Charles M Sheldon's In His Steps (Where the phrase WWJD came from) as well as the Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius. It looks interesting.

Paul Tillich's book (not pictured) The New Being is also yet another book I am hoping to get read.

I am also reading through the bible this year. I am using The Daily Message Hardback: Through the Bible in One Year in hopes to keep it "readable" without distracting me from reading. Don't worry, I will also have a "study time".

I do have some other books on order and will add them as I get them. But this should be an interesting book year.

So... what's on your reading list this year?

Book Review: Religions of the Stars by Richard Abanes

Book Review: Religions of the Stars by Richard Abanes

I consider it a privilege to review any book. Even more when it is a friend’s book, though with that sometimes comes the trepidation that I may read the book too charitable or not charitable enough.

I have gotten to know Richard Abanes over the last year or so at various websites we both hang out at. He is very insightful and what I would consider being from the old school of Discernment ministries. His lineage as I call does come directly from Walter Martin and Christian Research Institute. Suffice it to say I would recommend him as one of the “good” discernment minstries out there. Richard has authored many books and at times even I would consider him a bit controversial.

To be straight forward, Richard and I do not agree on everything. Yet, unlike many who profess “discernment” I have not found him to be antagonistic toward me at all. Personally I think the disagreements are very minor and truthfully, Richard is the type of person that can agree to disagree on the minor things, yet will fight tooth and nail over the essentials.

Religions of the Stars is a very informative book. It is broken into different sections as to how Hollywood stars believe.

Oprah’s New Spirtuality : This covers the life of Oprah which was very humanizing of her, and then goes into the critique of Oprah’s New Age belief in contrast to the Christian faith.
Mormon in Movieland: This section covers and contrasts Mormonism with Christianity
The Buddha Comes to Tinseltown: This section covers how Buddhism came to Hollywood and contrasts Buddhism with Christianity
Scientolgy: Hollywood’s A-List Religion: This gives a very revealing look at Scientology and is very informative. Again, this section contrasts Scientology with Christianity
Kabbalah a la Madonna: This is also an interesting section as Abanes covers and contrasts not just Christianity but also Judaism/Kabbalahism with the new pop version that Madonna and others follow.
The Magick of Hollywood: This section covers Occultism in Hollywood and again contrasts it with Christianity

Each section is informative, humanizing and easy to read. I learned much about Scientology and the type of Kabbalahism that Madonna is into. Richard Abanes really never goes into sensationalism which would be easy to do in such a book.

Now there are two minor critiques:

I do believe there is a “Christian” panentheism. This type acknowledges that God is separate from creation, yet also sees that God is “in creation” in the sense that Romans 1:20 states:
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Now I would not fight tooth and nail to support this as Biblical doctrine, yet in the debates I have read I do see that this type of panentheism may be acceptable. The thing on this I do agree with is the way and definition Richard Abanes used panentheism as not being Biblical.

In the Magick section I disagree a bit on Harry Potter as being connected with Occultism. Now I truly understand the reasons why Richard sees these books as he does and again, would not argue and divide over our disagreement. I do agree to an extent as I would be cautious to let my kids watch the movies or read the books without discussing them with them.

Again, I will emphasize that these are very minor disagreements and I would recommend the book to anyone that needs information on these religions.

Personal message to Richard:

Richard, I was amused at one reference to a certain “evangelist”. As I have gotten to know him I see him on the level of Ken Silva. LOL! But, then even a broken clock is right twice a day so Eric could be right on some things I suppose.

Books! Books! Books!

Michal Frost and Alan Hirsch are a great team. ReJesus is a provocative look at how we are doing church now and how we should look at church as we move into this new era. Though I will not say they present anything "new" I will say they unpack many things that others have presented before them very well. This is not about changing Jesus to fit our views, but about changing our views, and recaptureing a high Christology that will refocus us to drive a missional church.

Andy Crouch is a deep writer. Be warned Culture Making is not light reading. Is culture something we need to fight against, or do we need to realize culture is inate to humankind. Andy Crouch builds a great foudnation to show that we are to make culture and explores what this means a Christians.



Every year I try to re-read Classic Christianity. Bob George unpacks Grace in a very down to earth manner. This book had a profound impact on my faith and in helping me find acceptance from God.

Todd Friel: Is He For Real?

Now, it is long, but the highlights are...

1. Did he read the book... does not sound like it at all!
2. Tells us piety is wrong, then tells us that the problem is the "hypocrites" in the church.
3. Does not grasp that we are in the world and not of it...
4. Agrees then builds about 20 different straw men to make it wrong...
5. States over and over "WE need to change the people" ummm God changes people! ARRRRGH!

When he states two types of Christians... your type and our type don't miss the irony in all that as Todd's picture comes up... and then he begings to promote exactly what he is speaking against! LOL!

It goes on.. He talks of being anti "hypocrites" then states "WE" must change people and does not even care to see the others perspective. IF HE ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK he would have noticed the message is not changed... believe me I have read the book.

I see he is misdiagnosing the problem and then ignoring any solution except his OWN WAY... and that is that instead of trusting the Holy Spirit to change people... "WE" must change them.

Good grief... once again I understand why I do not listen to these guys. There is so much doublespeak and misinformation and... well intellectual dishonesty...

Well I did laugh a bit... And Todd, get out of that bubble. Denny's is not all there is in culture.

Oh contrast Todd's rant with this video...



or this one...



Blessed?

iggy

The New Christians: Tony Jones

Of all at Emergent, Tony Jones has been one that intrigued me the most. I really like much he offers at Emergent Village such as the Plato Smackdown and other podcast dealing with philosophy and religion.

With that I had some great anticipation when heard he had a book come out. Now, I caution that like other "Emergents" Tony is but one voice in a much larger conversation. I do see heavy influence by Brian McLaren both from the title to the much that is spoken about by in New Kind of Christian as we flash forward and find the pioneers who blazed trails and also took the arrows.

I was not disappointed with Tony's book. I see though as I look around the web (I usually try not to as I am about to write a review, yet for some reason I did...) I see that the chapters Tony talks about the "chickens" seem to miss the mark with some. It seems some people miss the understanding of stewardship and think Tony is "out to save the chickens" truthfully I saw that chapter about saving Christianity from consumerism... not just consumerism, but wanton destruction and total disregard for God's creation. The own took to heart his business, the officers, thought it a joke to worry about the humane slaughter of chickens... and many of them were "Christians". To me to understand that (which seemed a simple illustration) one would begin to grasp the issues we see as emerging... Christians.

My favorite point that Tony makes is how he explains "Absolute truth" I won't spoil it, but suffice it to say, I wish I have the simple illustration to explain why I see that the biblical definition of Truth needs no "qualifier" and to add to it, actually takes away from it and adds more issues than if we just stood on the bibles definition. This is not to throw out "absolutes" rather to gain that Truth is a Person... Jesus Christ... and not a detached abstract thought.

If one is trying to get an understanding on the "movement" this will give a bit more to the grand puzzle. But, realize as I already stated, this is a grand mosaic of many conversants. To say this book wraps it all up neatly, would be misleading, yet it will help flesh out the misunderstandings that are out there. (unless you get stuck thinking about saving chickens for Jesus and miss the point!) = )

For other voices about the book..

Next Wave

Tall Skinny Kiwi

Mmmm, That's Good Coffee...

Be Bless,

iggy

UnChristian

UnChristian

I received a copy of the book by Dave Kinnaman and Gabe Lyons a while ago and was pretty excited to read it. I am sometimes a sucker for data and graphs and such as I expected from a book by the Barna research group.

As I read through it though, it seemed as if it was old material. What I mean is this is the data to back up what many of us have already been stating and have witnessed.

The “Christian” Church has become in many ways unchristian.

Now, what does that mean? It does not mean we all have forsaken doctrines and such, rather it means that though we still hold many things that are true and of great value, somehow we have given off some very unchristian messages.

We are perceived by people as:
Anti homosexual
Judgmental
Hypocritical
Sheltered
Too political
Too focused on getting people saved

Now on the surface each of these may not sound that bad to some. Yet, remember this is what people think of “Christians”. My question is, when asked, this is their reply instead of “People that love Jesus and love others.”

Are we just a people that hate gays? Is that what some view sums up being a Christian? I hope not. Yet it does seem that many of us are missing the boat.

Are we to be known for what we are against or Who we are for?

It was a hard read as at times I wanted to yell, “THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT!”

Funny thing is that I read another review where the author stated the real issue was that the “Emergents” were corrupting the church… I guess they missed the chapter on judgmentalism…

I recommend the book. It has in it some quite differing viewpoints on how and what we need to do to change others perceptions of Christians… like Brian McLaren and Charles Colson which some might say are polar opposites so it should appeal to a wide variety of people. Other contributors included are Rick Warren, Jim Wallis, Chris Seay, John Stott and a few others.

For more info on the book, you can check out their website.

To hear an interview with one of the authors check out the Steve Brown Etc. show.

In the mail: Paul Vieira

I received this from Paul Vieira to day. Just thought I would pass it on. He is the author of "Jesus has left the building" if you have not read it, you should!

Be blessed!
iggy


Hi,
I hope things are going well with you. I thought I would send you a short note to let you know that I'm making my book available for free to listen to in a downloadable audio file. Each week I'm reading a chapter from my book Jesus Has Left The Building in a new audio podcast. To subscribe in iTunes visit this link.
Once you've installed iTunes and subscribed to the podcasts, each time you launch iTunes, the latest episode will automatically be downloaded. You can then store and play these audio files using your iPod device, other portable MP3 player, or computer. Best of all, these podcasts are FREE!

Feel free to forward this message to anyone else you think would enjoy these podcasts.

Thanks,
Paul

Book Review: God Touches, by Dan Gilliam

Book Review: God Touches (finding faith in the cracks and spaces of my life) By Dan Gilliam

I have been getting to know Dan Gilliam over the last couple of years. I was privileged to be one of those who had a chance to read the book as he wrote it... and even more to be able to read the finished product.

Dan Gilliam is a poet, songwriter, painter, speaker, and now author. He has been in the ministry for many years... and has had many struggles. Dan is open and genuine as he talks of his trials and misadventures and struggles in his life such as having to step down from ministering over an addiction to alcohol... all to find God in the cracks and spaces of his life. It is an encouraging read as he finds his Life is in Christ Jesus.

Each chapter is set up with an opening quote that gives a bit of heads up as to what the chapter will be about. With that, each chapter is set up so it can be used as a devotional, or for contemplation. I see within these pages and Dan's struggles a person who was found by God and now seeks to bask in His Glory. There are some very practical things taught and some things that may stretch a few out of their comfort zone. To me that is a good thing as if one is not stretched, then one is not growing. Some of the more interesting thoughts are in his reflections on Rich Mullins. Yet, through all the chapters, there is a positive message of hope to all, that Jesus is there even when we do not see Him at work... He is what holds this crack vessel together. I recommend the book for just reading, or even doing small groups around especially if one is involved in a 12 step program. The chapters on the Big Quite are the biggest challnge to me as I tend to live loud and large.

Blessings,

iggy

"Thinker up has "Hot List" about "emergent" beliefs and authors!!!!!"

Kennyo said...
the purpose of this list is not for commentary on the authors but rather an aid in helping identify who those involved in the Emergent church like to read and are influenced by.
1:05 PM

This is in the comments as if an after thought... but here is the "list" of "evil" emergent practices and authors that we read... according to ThinkerUp

Emergent Beliefs and Characteristics:
• Redefine the Christian Faith to accommodate "post-modernity"• Redefining the doctrine of hell as not being literal
• God's judgement interpreted as simply being embarrassed by your sin or an inability to gratify your desires
• Reinterpreting the penal substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross
• Questioning the inerrant authority of scripture
• The bible primarily as a "story" or narrative• Conversion as becoming a part of "His story"
• Planetary salvation (Restoring the entire earth to it's original Creation and "rhythm")
• Proclaiming of the Kingdom of God being established on earth in present history more than the gospel of salvation
• Promoting a "social gospel"
• Defines themselves as "missional"
• The Protestant Reformation as possibly an ongoing process
• Believes Emergent could be a "Second Reformation"
• Questions are esteemed higher than answers
• Social and environmental activism
• Anti-war and political liberalism
• Promoting spiritual disciplines (meditation, fasting, contemplative prayer, breath prayers, centering prayer, labyrinth prayer walks, guided imagery, Lectio Divina, Ignatius Examen, stations of the cross)
• Promoting the mystical, the sensory and the experiential
• Anti-establishment
• Truth is determined by cultural influences or tradition* Truth is not propositional
• Teaching should be multi-sensory and creative rather than linear
• Traditional preaching is replaced by discussion and dialogue
• Reluctant to call homosexuality a sin
• Occasionally use profanity to get point across
• May become worldy to reach the world
• Life experiences determine theology and orthodoxy
• Language is oriented around self – feelings, opinions, and attitudes
• Community, relationships and unity are highest priorities
• Uncomfortable with historic christian orthodoxy as having an exclusive claim on truth
• Tolerate ideological and theological differences, very inclusive and ecumenical

Emergent Preferred Authors and Speakers:
• N.T. Wright
• Brian McLaren
• Henri Nouwen
• Dallas Willard
• Richard Foster
• Donald Miller
• Tony Campolo
• Rob Bell
• Dan Kimball
• Doug Pagitt
• Erwin McManus
• Gregory Boyd
• Andy Crouch
• Chris Seay
• Tony Jones
• Leonard Sweet
• Shane Claiborne
• Brian Walsh
• Miroslav Volf
• Brennan Manning
• Walter Brueggemann
• Dr. Robert Webber
• Steve Chalke
• Alan Mann
• Matthew Fox
• Tom Hohstadt
• Bono
• Ryan Bolger
• Spencer Burke
• David Bosch
• Eddie Gibbs
• Tilden Edwards
• Marcus Borg
• M. Scott Peck
• Jacques Derrida
• Karl Barth
• Søren Kierkegaard
• Carl Jung
• Thomas Merton
• Thomas Keating
• Cynthia Bourgeault
• C.S. Lewis
• Sue Monk Kidd
• Anne Lamont
• Rowan Williams
• Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
• Madam Guyon
• Jürgen Moltmann
• Dietrich Bonhoeffer
• William Blake

Emergent Preferred Catholic Mystics, Desert Fathers and Monks:
• St. John of the Cross
• Ignatius of Loyola
• Peter Faber
• Dionysius
• St. Francis of Assisi
• Juliana of Norwich
• Thomas Merton
• Meister Ekhart
• Basil Pennington
• St. Teresa of Avila
• St. Thomas Aquinas
• Pierre Teilhard d Chardin
• Richard Rolle
• The Cloud of Unknowing (anonymous monk)
posted by Kennyo at 7:43 PM


That is quite a list isn't it...

Now, there are many I have never heard about and will definitely look them up... Some I agree are not that good and some i will say are just weird to see and really wonder what was going on in this persons head?

Really this goes to show that most emergents are pretty well read

Yet, I will add a few that are not on this list i have encountered...

• Jesus (in the Bible and our hearts)
• Paul and all the other writers of the Bible inspired by the Holy Spirit
• Fancis Shaffear
• Pual Viera
• Pete Greig
• Frank Viola
• Wayne Jacobs
• Jim Wallis
• Scot McKnight
• Karen Ward
• Michael Frost
• Alan Hirsch
• John Piper
• John MacArthur
• Frank Page
• Steve Taylor
• Brian J. Walsh
• Sylvia C. Keesmaat
• George Barna
• Maj Ian Thomas

This is really a good list and you can see that there is a mixture of some great things and a few not so great things... though I would disagree with many things on the list, I have seen in many traditional churches these same things... but hey, why look at your own log when you can point out splinters in others.

What i don't see on the list is really telling... and here are some core things that would never be found in emergent circles.

• hatred
• justification of judging other (condemnation)
• Someone to be the Holy Spirit for you
• someone who tries to control you
• someone who accepts you only if you tow the company line

I am sure there are more... so go ahead and add to the list.

Book Review: God on Mute by Pete Greig

Pete Greig is described as "an author, church-planter and one of the founding leaders of 24-7prayer". With that one would imagine that he would be all about "This prayer was answered!" or "We prayed and a miracle happened!"... Yet instead as he watched his wife struggle for her life first with a life threatening tumor then with her struggles with merciless seizures.

What we see a story of faith and hope that unfolds as Pete faces why prayers are not answered sometimes.

I found it hard to read... not that it was written badly, rather I had to set it down many times as I would find myself weeping over the struggles and victories that Pete shared in the book. I would highly recommend it for people in the midst of the struggle as well as for a small group. In the back is a discussion section. It is a good read... and its profundity will sneak up on you at times.

Blessings,

iggy

Goodbye Religion, Hello Spirituality

Goodbye Religion, Hello Spirituality

An Emergent Manifesto of Hope (Baker, 2007).

This looks to me to be an interesting read. I am looking forward to checking it out.

Religion seems to hold captive people to it's structure, yet Jesus promises something more. We are born of the Spirit, and are brothers and sister's by that same Spirit... yet it seems we return to what Jesus called us out of.

These are two of the strongest and often controversial voices. being Doug Pagitt and Tony Jones.

Blessings,

iggy

Book Review: God's Ultimate Passion by Frank Viola

Book review: God’s Ultimate Passion Frank Viola

Once again I get the privilege to review a book. I enjoyed that Frank quoted both Brian McLaren and Maj Ian Thomas which was fascinating to see the two fit together as I have seen they do. This book was to me a wonderful read. Though Frank Viola may refer to these to in the beginning of the book he moves on very quickly into the heart and purpose of his message and that is to reveal the Bride of Christ. There is a depth of understanding of the story of salvation yet even deeper Frank Viola shows our identity as the Bride of Christ.

Frank takes you through many different Bible passages to show the fine thread that is present. That the Father desires to give His Son a Bride… and that she will be perfect and unblemished and that Bride is all who are believers in Jesus.

I highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to dig deeper into who you are in Christ Jesus. This is one author I will be reading more from.

Blessings,
iggy

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Furious Pursuit (Book Review)

I received a request a while back to review a book by Tim King and Frank Martin titled "Furious Pursuit (Why God will never let you go). Of course I love a free book, so I said yes.

Now i am a grace junkie i admit... I love that God loves us and that even in the sending His Son to die in our place, we see that it is out of Love that God sent His Son to learn suffering, to learn obedience, and to taste death... all on our behalf. Some that as God being a cruel Father, yet miss that the Son willingly laid down His life for us, to give His life to us... in that to live His Life in and through us. In this Jesus also turned this fallen worlds system of power and authority on it's head... and restored all back to God through Himself.

So often we hear of wrath, or of an angry God that is out for vengeance, and in that we think, of a god that desires to only punish sinners and hates sinners... which is farthest from the truth... If God hated sinners, He would not have even tried to save us. For scripture tells us in Romans 5:8-11


"But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, because we have now been declared righteous8 by his blood, we will be saved through him from God’s wrath. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled, will we be saved by his life? Not only this, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received this reconciliation."


At first as i was reading this book I kept finding myself going "yep, heard that before, yep, and that... and.... hmmm that was a pretty interesting.... hmmm wow, that was insightful, and..." In other words, I found that though much of this book seemed on the surface a retread of many other great books on Grace and God's love out there, just when i thought I knew exactly where the authors were going, they hit me with some great thoughts. I really loved the chapters covering Hosea and Gomar. How God told Hosea to married of all things a prostitute... and love her... even in and through her unfaithfulness... The authors point out that all of us are Gomar... truly not worthy of forgiveness and even worse that we seem thing that when we are done "having our fun" that we can just go back to God like nothing happened... yet instead of wrath and hatred and punishment, God woos us into the desert and lavishes His love on us, to restore us to Himself... it is an amazing story and truth of scripture.

I truly recommend this book and the work book that is also available and I hope to soon start a small group that will study through this.

Blessings,
iggy

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Norman Grubb... YES, I AM online book: Updated

I was looking at different blogs that teach the exchanged life and came across an online gem.

Here is Norman Grubb's book, "YES,I AM" online... for free. I have heard a couple of Norman Grubbs sermons and his accent and quick pace of speaking makes it a bit hard to really catch the things he says. He is probably one of the top 5 teachers of the exchanged life... (One of my favorites is not even on this "list".)

I hope this will bless many of you in your walk in Christ Jesus.

Blessings,
iggy


Recently I have had contact with someone who has been doing research on Norman Grubbs ministry. Though I may recommend this book I would caution as to the overall teachings of Norman Grubb. Feel free to contact me.

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Books on Review from 2006

I received a couple of surprise emails asking me to review some books this last year... I was humbled and shocked. I really don't have that much time with a full time job that demands flexible hours. Yet, somehow I worked my way through a couple... and again this year I will already have two authors asking me to review. I did actually turn one author down as I saw the book more New Age than Christian.





Spencer Burke hit the blogsphere with Heretic's Guide to Eternity this last year. It had quite a few people in an uproar. Even Spencer's friends had some hard hitting things to say and all one has to do is Google the title and one will find most if not many agreed that much of Spencer's views were in fact heretical. I had a hard time... I mean I get a free book from the guy who runs the ooze.com and seem to be reading past much of the "heretic" stuff and seeing Spencer's heart. Did I agree with Spencer? On some things... I think we are close on our view of Grace, yet I am hesitant to leap into the abyss and join Universalism (There are different types of universalism and I see that the atonement was "once for all" so in that sense the atonement was universal, yet salvation is not.) Spencer is not as smooth as Brian in getting one to think, yet I hear there is another book in the wings by Spencer... and that he may not agree with all he wrote here... I recommend this book to inspire conversation. Tough conversations... but not for answers, as that is not the purpose of the book anyway.

Jesus has left the Building
Paul Vieria contacted me many months ago. his book Jesus has left the building really has captured my attention. the big picture is that Jesus like Elvis has left the building. Yet, the thought is, maybe Jesus was never in the building! Paul does a great job in contrasting modern and postmodern thinking in some great "talk pass" conversations. This book should be on every one's list. Paul has some unique, some not so unique but still needed, and some very insightful things to say. I think this book may be one that will change one's life.



A Generous Orthodoxy

Brian McLaren is the most loved-hated-despised-inspirational-motivational-thought provoking-hate provoking-historian-word artist-writer-speaker-teacher-pastor-down to earth- gentle-demanding-right on-so wrong-heretical-orthodoxical-best selling-inspiring of book burnings- author of our day. Read it, love him or hate him... but read it.


I have a couple of books in the hopper and am finishing one of my favorites very soon.

Blessings,
iggy

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Chuck Colson and the Knowability of Truth (revisited)

I read an article by Chuck Colson which was interesting. He seemed more open than what I have read of him before, yet still I see his misses the point… though it is the most close I have seen someone “get it”, yet not.

He opens:

“Distressed about my widely circulated exchanges with an "emerging church" leader, a young theologian confronted me after a conference. He urged me to try to understand them. "You might be surprised by how much you agree on," he said.
Maybe I had been too harsh. After all, the theologian—we'll call him Jim—argued that emerging church leaders are trying to translate the gospel for a postmodern generation. That's a commendable goal, I agreed. Though in their effort to reach postmoderns—who question the existence and knowability of truth—I expressed fear that they are coming dangerously close to teaching that objective truth does not exist.”

(That sounds great and I hope he means it. Yet with all the wonderful news Chuck Colson misses the point or maybe it is finally the contrast between what the emerging church sees and what the modern church views as value.)


“Like all statements that can lead us into error, those have the ring of truth. Of course, truth becomes relational when we come to Jesus, Truth himself. But our doing that isn't what makes it true. He is the truth whether or not we ever experience him. Scripture is never less than revealed propositional truth.”

(I find it interesting that Chuck Colson believes Jesus to be “Truth Himself” so it seems that if I am a heretic for this belief this opponent of the emerging church is also one but I digress as I view this as really aberrant to one individual who is more out to discredit me on a personal level. Yet, I think here is the open door to the key issue that Colson may have as he misses that without the relationship with Jesus, the bible is just” propositions” and can only be assumed true. For without the authority of Jesus to back the Bible, it has no authority. Without the Bible being backed by God then it has not authority. So relationship is most important… as I have stated before many times without a irrefutable undeniable, verifiable “source” of truth, it cannot be “true”. Truth can only be assumed to be true from one’s relative knowledge of all things in the known creation.)

“The e-mails kept coming back to that one stubborn question: What is truth? While I now have increased sympathy for what emerging leaders are trying to accomplish, I still believe some have wrongly diagnosed the church—believing evangelicals are wedded to dry, dusty doctrine, the curse of modernity.”

(In these email exchanges I think that the person may not be a true representative of what most “think”. To talk to one person here and one there does not mean all believe the same. Even in the mainstream churches one cannot assume that all affirm the tenants of our faith. It is not just the “dry, dusty doctrine, the curse of modernity” that we are diagnosing as “wrong” in fact Brian McLaren in one lecture I listened to praised modernity as a great thing in and of itself! It is that we have allowed modernity to affect our view in how we read scripture… we have “culturalized it out of it’s true context and in that created a new context for which it was not intended… On doctrines, though I am accused of not believing in doctrines, which is ludicrous. I am against man made doctrine and like most emerging folks seek true biblical doctrine that does not have the baggage of modernity)

“….My experience is that most mainstream evangelicals are so steeped in the experiential gospel that they never think about truth propositionally. (Barna found while 63 percent of Americans do not believe in truth, 53 percent of evangelicals don't either.)”

(In this then it is not just an “emerging church” issue it seems to be across the board. I will point out that it is the emerging church that is addressing this issue… and while doing it taking the punches from those in the church who oppose change.)

“For evangelicalism (let alone emerging churches) to buy into that would undermine the very foundation of our faith. Theologian Donald A. Carson puts his finger precisely on the epistemological problem: Of course, truth is relational, Carson writes. But before it can be relational, it has to be understood as objective. Truth is truth. It is, in short, ultimate reality. Fortunately, Jim came to see this.”

(This is actually the opposite of Jesus’ teaching as He states that in order to know truth; one must know Him…Jesus came to fulfill scripture… so He is the Master. Jesus is the LVIING WORD which makes the written word fulfilled. Again, without Jesus, the Bible would be no different than any other book Jesus the Person makes the Bible, truth. Luke 24; John 2; John 5:39; These verses are a good start, there are many more references to this matter)

“The emerging church can offer a healthy corrective if it encourages us to more winsomely draw postmodern seekers to Christ wherever we find them—including coffee houses and pubs. And yes, worship styles need to be more inviting, and the strength of relationship and community experienced. But these must not deter us from making a solid apologetic defense of the knowability of truth.”

(This last statement to me shows that Chuck Colson misses the point completely… that to now Jesus is to know Truth. For without the relationship then we cannot know truth for Jesus is “Truth Himself”, to quote Chuck Colson from this very article.)


Conclusion:

Chuck Colson is making headway in his understanding and to his credit is not on the attack against, but I see truly trying to address issues as many of us are within the movement itself. Though a bit misguided I see that he is respectfully speaking and engaging people in the movement to grasp what we are about. I know that it is a hard row as we are not all on the same page in the emerging church. Yet, as in the time of the reformation not all thought the same… that is why we have Lutherans and Calvinists and many other branches that came out of the Reformation Movement. So to look for cohesion of thought may not be the best way to see what we all believe. (One cannot look at the emerging church in a modernistic view as we are addressing the post-modern mindset to bring them to Christ so we are speaking in another language of sorts). Again I appreciate Chuck Colson’s attempt yet I hope he will see where he is falling short I his understanding that Truth is not just objective… a person cannot be just objective… and Jesus is The Truth and is a Person… which makes the highest form of truth… personal. To know truth one must know Jesus, the Person… and He will reveal it.

(I was talking to someone and realized why the emerging church is sometimes thought of not accepting "objective truth" and stresses truth to be a Person... or personal... We do not define personal truth in the way a modern thinker would, which again is the language barrier I was talking about. We see personal truth as in the context of the relationship with Jesus. It is relational truth. We are against "objectifying" Truth which is a person... It is like if one objectifies a woman... it dehumanizes her to a non person or object... in this case a sex object. In the case seeing Truth as purely objective would be like saying Jesus is only an object... like an idol of stone of wood... which to the emerging church is anathema and blasphemes. I know the modern church would see it that way also if they thought of an object being worshipped over the creator. Again, personal truth is not how the modern mindset defines it to us. It is not "what ever you or I believe and makes me feel good is alright" but meaning we do not see Jesus as an object... but a person... and that is why it is personal truth... and relational truth.)

Blessings,
iggy

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Jesus has Left the Building

Jesus has Left the Building
Paul Vieira has written a great book on how Jesus has left the building. Or as he points out, that maybe Jesus was never in the building in the first place.

As I suspected Paul seems to have tapped into my psyche and has extracted many of the same thoughts I have explored over the last few years... He can express his thoughts much better that I can though.One of the surprises is the foreword by Winkie Pratney... A name I remember from my years in a youth group in a small town in Montana when I was listening heavily to Keith Green albums... Yes albums... Actually we used to record to cassette tape and listen, but originally it was on albums. Winkie also wrote a youth group program I used a bit when I was a youth pastor in the Assembly of God. Winkie, (gotta love a guy named Winkie!) basically sums up the book with a warning... That if you read this book it will change you.

I can't remember how long ago Paul contacted me about this book... I checked out his website and downloaded his sermons on his page... (I even broadcasted it on iggyROCKS! And I can't remember if I asked if I could... But I did... So can I? uh.... Thanks!)

The book is a bit of a journey as Paul is finding there is something more than religion... I will say he is not as controversial as Spencer Burkes Heretic Guide to Eternity, but there are some challenging positions to say the least. This seems smoothly written and as I have read so far, I agree that we are to take the church outside the walls that we have tried to hold it in. Paul writes like he is on a mission... And he is and in that so are all of us who are believers in Christ Jesus.In my own journey I have been attacked by those who are afflicted with a religious spirit... Which is where I am in the book now. I had planned on writing about this bondage, and I guess it is time. So I will be ready for the accusation to fly my way.I quote from the book in the Chapter "The Religious Spirit":

"When I say "religious spirit", I am talking about a work of deception perpetrated by evil, which gives the person plagued by it a certain air of self righteousness., but it's more than attitude. It is a spiritual oppression that attacks the individual's motivation under the surface. A major hint at identifying a religious spirit is that a religious spirit will always highlight the means to an end, and lose sight of the desired outcome. The means becomes the end." (Page 57)

Paul goes on to give the example I often use in John 5:39... This is where Jesus tells the Pharisees that they seek eternal life from the scripture, but will not find it because it can only come from Jesus.

I can give personal examples of how some have laid accusations about me in hopes to have me “repent” yet it seems they are more intent on “being right” or “self righteous” than they care about my soul… As long as they can silence me they would just be happy with that. To me they are like the Pharisee in the other example that Paul uses from Luke 18: 9 – 14

“The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."”

The focus was not on God but rather their own righteous acts and beliefs… Pharisees were the best at following doctrines. In fact they loved doctrines so much they made up a few hundred more besides the ones God had given… they wanted to be the standard… but then came along Jesus and messed that up for them… for He was the standard and He called them on their hypocrisy. How? Because, even though Jesus was God, incarnate… He humbled Himself as a mere man… and walked as a mere man… totally dependant on the Father. (John 5:19, 8:28). That is how we are to live also… humbly before God… totally dependant on the Father, through Jesus Christ. To live by a creed, or doctrine… without being indwelt by Jesus, means nothing… it cannot give life… only Jesus Who is Life… can give Life…. (John 1:4, John 5:39, 40, John 6:63, John 11: 25 - 26. Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 14: 6. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.) It is strange to me that some will agree that Jesus is Life itself… yet not agree He is TRUTH. But I digress.


If we live in total dependence we are attached to the Vine .. We are the Body of Christ and as that Body… each part is dependant on the Head… if we decide to detached from that Head… we die… So to be attached to the Head is LIFE itself. (TRUTH if detached from the SOURCE… being Jesus… is also often not truth… as the case of the snake in the Garden… when Eve looked somewhere other than God for Truth, she was deceived… she detached from the SOURCE and became her own source… and was deceived… That is why I preach that Jesus is TRUTH Absolute incarnate. For we must be attached to the SOURCE to have Truth in its purity.

A religious spirit does not care for their neighbor… it will not humbly reach low to lift one higher… it will only cast haughty glances and speak words of self flattery while it puts down others it deems unworthy… THIS IS SATANIC… it is EVIL… and if you see this in yourself like I did years ago… only turning to Jesus can cleanse you of this spiritual bondage.

That is why when I am personally attacked I pray for those who have done it… this is for a couple of reason… first… what if they are right? Even if my motive is pure, was it? Or if it was, did I send the wrong message out… and was perceived as what they saw? If their perception was wrong… but I could see where they got it from, should I change things so as not to offend? Yet, then if that is not enough… I pray also that the other will know grace and mercy… and walk humbly in Love in Jesus… and grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Truth that is in Christ. I pray they find a deeper relationship with Jesus. Either way, I consider it a blessing and an honor that God would allow me to be persecuted for my faith… be it from outside the Church or inside as it tests and helps me grow and focus more and more on Jesus.

So in that I will continue.

I highly recommend Jesus has left the building…

Be Blessed!
iggy

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My response to Bob Hyatt concerning Heretics Guide to Eternity

My response to Bob Hyatt concerning Heretics Guide to Eternity

Bob Hyatt has been reviewing the book Heretics Guide to Eternity as well as myself… yet it seems we are seeing it a bit differently.

Bob,
I hate to say this, but I seem to agree with Spencer on many things more than what you just wrote... I think often pastors mistake "love" with control... or often lose sight that it is the Holy Spirit in control and not themselves.

I have had a few disagreements with the book, yet, I think I would have hours of conversation with Spencer... There are times as I read the book I think he is reading my mind...

Though I have not finished it... but I keep looking for the outlandish that some have said is there...

To me, I see Spencer as showing Jesus is the door... that we need to go through Him... in that we then lose the institutionalization of church and life in the Life of Christ.

Believe me... there is more to church than we have even begun to know... and most of what we know as church is not...

Really I do not grasp what you are getting at in this statement:

"This is a broken world and we are broken people. The good news, though, is that God Himself has come to rescue and renew all of creation through the work of Jesus Christ on our behalf.
But telling people that they experience the saving grace of God irrespective of personal faith and trust in God's Savior, in God's provision for forgiveness is a cruel and terrible thing to do."

Doesn't the Bible say that while we were still enemies of God, Jesus died for us? So Grace is ever and always there... for where sin is Grace abounds even more? Grace is not just in the moment of receiving Christ, but in the fact that the God who spoke all things into existence can unspeak all things into non existence... to acknowledge that He is long suffering and merciful...

As far a being literal... I think we need to realize most the time we claim we take the bible literal and really we don't. Be careful to not cast stones... Do you still have two eyes and both hands? Yet, have you looked at a woman lustfully? We tend to pick and choose what we think we want literal and what we do not. I can say that I have both eyes and both hands... I can write it off as a metaphor, or whatever, yet, Jesus said it... and I think he meant it literally... but I think he had another solution... and that was the Cross.

I think the passage was meant a bit tongue in cheek that "no one actually recorded Jesus' words at the time he spoke them, so we have no proof that they are indeed his words, and what he did say, he said in Aramaic, which means that nothing in the Bible as translated into any other language can be taken literally anyway..." Have you ever noticed that the same stories in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, often have the same wordings yet not always the same exact quotes? So which one is right? Which of the Gospels is wrong in what they say Jesus actually said?

Are you going to tell me that “The Message” is a literal quote word for word of Jesus actual words? Personally there is much passing for “True Christianity” that is neither true, nor Christian…

Mostly, I think that maybe you put back that can of Driscoll and maybe approach our brother with a bit more Grace…

Blessings,
iggy

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Heretic's Guide to Eternity (part 4)

Heretic’s Guide to Eternity (Part 4)

I will confess that I have been very busy… and that this book is not that hard of a read. In fact it reads very easy. I find it very interesting to read Spencer's joureny as my journey has been somewhat the same for the last few years has been about discovering, or rather at times rediscovering my faith in the context of the Postmodern age.

This may also be more of a rant than a “book review”… or maybe a bit of both.

To read Spencer’s thoughts on institutionalization of the church… which is to me the core of the issue concerning moving from religion to the “beyond” he is attempting to describe, I hear what has been in my own heart for about 2 years now. In many ways this is a tough road to try to explain to others, and I have often gotten into some heavy discussions over the topic of whether the church is and institution, organism or something else altogether. I have attempted in my own way to express that Jesus never intended us to create a new “institution”, rather He intended us to be grafted to His Body… to become One in Christ as He is One with the Father (John 17).


Though as I have explored this thought I realize there is an aspect to the “church” being an “institution”, or rather that the institutional aspect is a more tool to help get the job done… We were never to replace the fact we are an organism… the literal Body of Christ… with being an institution. To reduce the church to a mere institution is to separate it from its purpose and intent on earth… and that is to be Christ’s ambassadors until His return.


I have in the process of working through this been attacked and accused of being an apostate. I have had my character assassinated and have had people create “hate iggy” blogs in their attempt to “rebuke me in love”. None of this surprises me, as the Pharisees held to their view of religion even in the very presence of Christ Jesus Himself. I see those who hold to religion and their dogma will always replace “doctrine of men” and their own view of “religion” over the TRUTH who is Christ for that is their very nature, to protect their own personal “world view” and not allow anything to even attempt to change it. This is a very un-teachable spirit and very much lacking humility. Both of those are only changed by learning mercy and grace from our Creator. It will never be gained through trying to understand God by “propositional truth” alone.


With all that said, I will fully acknowledge that people of faith have for centuries worked out their faith in the context of the “institutionalized” church. Even in the attempt to change from the Roman Catholic hierarchy, Reformers recreated hierarchical systems of their own. The end result is that nothing really changed… just the names and the focus of the particular reformer group… It was the replacing of Priests with TULIP or some other “system” of theology.


(TULIP was not created by Calvin. The ideas developed from Calvinism were created later by the students of John Calvin.)

I am very grateful for many of the Reformers in their attempt to express a purer faith, I see that really we have become lazy and too dependant on the teaching passed on. (These teachings are not to be confused with the teachings express in 1 Corinthians 11:2 or 2 Thessalonians 2:15 rather this is related to Mark 7:7 and 1 Timothy 4:2 and also Hebrews 13:9) So if one is confused as to what I mean by “man made doctrine” I hope that clears it up. Spencer’s “Concerns are often the point of discussion amongst the emerging church.

• I’m concerned when Jesus’ death is brokered by Christianity simply as a business transaction.

• I ‘m concerned when institutional Christianity is so married to a particular political ideology that is supports policies and actions counter to the message of Jesus

• I’m concerned when institutions demand their biblical interpretation to be the ultimate source of absolute truth and then use this truth to condemn and judge.

• I’m concerned when Christianity is presented as the only way to God

• I’m concerned when institutions use the name of Jesus to maintain a patriarchal system that basically perpetuate women’s status as second–class citizens

• I’m concerned when the church says that a certain person or a particular group of people have no access to the grace of God because of their sexual orientation or because they grew up in some other part of the world under the influence of a different view of religion. *

Though I admit that I may come at these a bit different from Spencer, I too see these as “concerns”. Be careful to read what the “concern” is and not place your presupposed ideas in the “concerns”. For instance I see that I am concerned when “Christianity is presented as the only way to God”, I do see Jesus as the only one to salvation… not the religion of Christianity… I am hoping that Spencer will expound on this a bit more as I read more. I also see one of the most dangerous concerns that is happening is that Christianity has aligned itself with the right-wing politics. That is not to say all in the right-wing view is wrong or evil, yet to marry one’s relationship with Jesus to any political movement… is not biblical nor keeping our faith pure. These are the issues that we must face in the Postmodern age. Again, this is not just about "changing the answers to make non followers of Christ feel comfortable"... on the contrary, we must wrestle with these issues and concerns. We must always strive to keep our faith pure and holy (authentic) before our pure and holy (real) God as we walk in His Grace and not pollute it with our own ideas and presumptuousness. Again, this is not just a critic of modern versus postmodern, but of "sound doctrine" versus "doctrines of man".

Though I am not sure that I at this time can go as far as Spencer in his view of Grace… we are totally on the same track concerning moving beyond “institutionalized” religion.


Now, I do want to clear up one big and very glaring mistake in the book…

Mathew Shepard was attacked in Wyoming, not Montana. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard)

As a Montanan I have to ask you to fix this mistake LOL!…

(Though the main point in which this was brought up I agree with you entirely!

Blessings,
iggy


* Page 100 Heretic's Guide to Eternity Spencer Burke