emerging thought...

Saturday, July 08, 2006

Is It Wrong To Be Right?

Is It Wrong To Be Right?

Before I answer this question I know many of you will already have judged what I am about to say. At least you might be partially right, yet will still be wrong. Yet, if your intention is to read this post and then set out to “get me” in some heretical view, or prove I am ‘wrong’, please don’t waste your time on this post. I am seeking genuine seekers who desire to go deeper into Christ… and not whiners or heretic hunters or accusers of the brethren to gather more fodder for their evil stew of judgmentalism and condemnation.

So, if your intention and motive is to judge me or anyone else STOP READING NOW! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! Because this will cause the honest man to think and look at their own heart and judge themselves… looking at the plank in their own eye instead of focusing on the sliver in my eye or someone else’s.

So, if you keep reading, you will have to be honest with yourself…

So is it wrong to be right… sometimes!

How can that be? Be patient as I try to unwind this in a way that gives it some clarity.

First, many think that PM/E/e ers do not believe in right and wrong or absolutes… it is true some may not, yet also true that many more do. In fact, there is often a misunderstanding of what we mean when we say we do not think in right/wrong, but think on doing what is good.

In doing good one will always default to doing what is truly right.

The best illustration comes from scripture with the story of the Good Samaritan…

In that, a man is beaten by a thief and left for dead on the side of the road, a priest and a rabbi, or the righteous of the story, see him yet think that to touch the man would make them unclean… so they pass him by. I often wonder as to why they did not at least send help after the man… maybe because the Jews of the day say the Samaritan as less than human, as they were half breed of gentile and Jew. Instead we have the most unlikely hero in Jewish literature… the Good Samaritan come to the rescue. To say ‘good’ before Samaritan is like saying a ‘good’ Nazi… at least to the mind of the Jew in that day… there was nothing good about a Samaritan. A Samaritan was not allowed in the temple in Jerusalem… and were considered equal with dogs.

Good Sam not only stopped and helped the guy, He set him up in a local motel and prepaid for the room until the man could recover… and assured that when he came back that he would pay any additional cost that could incur.

In other words, Sam did what was good.

I like to look at it this way… after we come to Christ; He has forgiven the wrong in our life and made it/us right in His Righteousness… so we are free to do what is good.

Now, take this story and think of the Jews in Nazi Germany. You have hidden them in your cellar and there is a knock at the door. You answer it to find it is the SS squad hunting down Jews… they ask you if you have seen any or know where any are at… being a Christian, under right and wrong thinking, you say, “ I have them in my cellar as I can’t lie, for I am a Christian.” The Jews are then taken and killed.

What is wrong with that picture? It is that there was a higher good and one was focused not on it, but on being right…

Let’s break this down in Christianese to help some of you understand what I am saying…

To say I am right… is to say in Christianese, “I am righteous.” In that to say another is wrong is to say, “You are unrighteous.”

Do you catch that?
Suddenly we are focused on our righteousness over another’s… forgetting none of us are righteous except for Jesus… for none of us are perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. That is the standard Jesus set… not me. To say that you are righteous, is to say you are without sin… and as John says in 1 john 1… “If you say you are without sin, the truth is not in you.” So, if you can be perfect in all of your own righteousness, and not fail or hold one wrong view, then, yes, your doctrine will save you! Go ahead try… I dare you!

Now, if the Nazi’s knocked at the door I would hope you would have responded as Rahab did as she hid the Hebrew spies. She lied to those who were against the True God… in order to do the higher good and save the men of the True God. In that she was approved righteous to God.

I am not saying as some will try to say I am that we are free to lie willy nilly and do as we please, but rather to use wisdom and discernment… given to us by the Holy Spirit to look into a situation beyond just right and wrong.

Solomon had two women standing before him… both claimed to be a baby’s mother… Solomon ordered the baby to be cut in half… NOT ONLY NOT GOOD, BUT VERY WRONG TO MURDER!!!!! Only then one of the so called mothers called out in mercy that the baby be spared and that the other woman could have the baby… she was the real mother! Solomon in his wisdom knew the real mother would love beyond just letting the baby die. That is wisdom and discernment… versus being a judge of another.

Again, I do believe in right and wrong, yet I do not depend on my own righteousness, but rather Christ’s Righteousness in my value structure. When I debate it is not to prove I am right and the other is wrong, yet rather to show that I could also be wrong… and find out later you could be right… or we are both right to a degree, or both plainly wrong altogether… and that is where humility comes into play. All parties must remember no one is right… only Christ Himself… and that if we are right it is only because He imputed His righteousness to us and that there is none of our own… so that we do not boast about being….. Right in ourselves… or rather self righteous. That is why I think of my blog or discussion group like sitting at a coffee shop with friends having coffee and a pleasant conversation, rather than one of those sickening political debates that only show both are as idiotic as can be… shaming both parties.

Modernistic thought does not grasp this… it seeks only to be right in its view at the expense that another is wrong. Just a slight glance over the Christian faith and history, on e can see this as many stand outside abortion clinics and calling names out to the woman such as “baby killers” and extreme  examples of shooting the Dr. and blowing up the clinics (real good). Most recently, the example would be how some pastors condone hatred and protest gay rights with signs that say. “God hates fags.”

True God does hate sin, any and all… so one with their logic would have to say, “God hate gossips”, “God hates gluttons”, “God hates liars”, and so on. This list would include any of your own personal pet sins… “God hates pornography lookers” … yet, I read in John 3: 16; “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17.  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18.  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

How can a God so loving, be so hateful?

Again, it is sin that God hates not the people… He died for them so they would not perish…. Yet we gleefully send many to hell without a worry… with that I wonder which is the greater sin?

If you try to say I am justifying homosexuality you have missed the point completely so don’t even go there… you will only come across as a fool.

So am I right or am I right? LOL!  Really be careful and mindful the next time you are quick to judge another… is it out your own self righteousness or out of goodness that you are trying to reach that person… in doing good, you will be sharing the righteousness of Christ… and that will be more powerful than anything.

Blessings,
iggy

To those against the Great Commission or i mean being Missional

To those against the Great Commission or I mean being Missional

To you anti-missional people out there… we emerging thought people use that for term for the great commission… so to us, if you say you are anti-missional, you are against the great commission… which Jesus commanded us to go and do!!!!!

One should do more reading with understanding before they say negative things out of ignorance.

I really had to laugh at one persons attempt to twist and put words in Brian McLarens mouth then slam the great commission as being wrong! I guess hate blinds people…

Blessings,
iggy

Tuesday, July 04, 2006

Sadder still...

Because of people like Ben this blog will for a time be moderated just like the accusers of the brethren blogs do like Sl!ce of LAyoddahseeya and Mr. Perkins blogs... I may if one is gracious let it through, yet I will not let hate be preached on this blog, for unlike people like Ben...

I do not believe hate is a Christian value.

Again, Ben... Be a man and make your own blog... In that say what you want... Spill the hate... I will even do a post to direct people to it! I just believe you can't back up your accusations. At least without twisting them is some way other than what was said.

You see, if you bothered to actually converse, you would have found that their are liberals, and conservatives and moderates in emerging thought (as I call it). Emergent is very conservative... To the point it is mostly Evangelical and some Calvinistic in their theology... Both of those you have slandered in your ignorance. In talking to them the only difference you would see is that they put their faith to action!

Yes, some may think what you have claimed yet, the majority do not... Surprise! If you would stop you tirade against and really took the time, you would have found we are people... Like you, well, except without the hate... And a little more well read. For instance, I am probably much more conservative than you!!!! I think Rush Limbah is a sell out to the Rep party... And that clouds his conservative view... That he has really lost touch with the people... That he has created his own upscale Rio Linda... I am personally an O'Reilly guy... No spin!

You have accused me of pushing Brian McLaren. I do have links and think he has many good things to say... If you bothered to ever read for youself you might actually see he does nt say much that is atributed to him. He even seems to hold a higher standard on human sexuality than you seem to think. He questions why it is alright that some churches let heterosexuals who are not married be active in churches yet we seem to "hate" homosexuals and seem to not care thta they to were loved by God and that being Christ died for them... Yet, people like you seem content in letting these people go to hell and seem happy about it as they go!

Yet, I do not agree with Brian on every point. I do however think he inspires thought and even sets out challenges, which to me set me to dig deeper into my faith... For you see I have a God big enough to handle challenges. I do however quote scripture and teach the exchanged life as much as I can. Yet, all you see is a little green button that says Emergent and get enraged.

Also, I have come in contact with people where using your style and approach only makes them run away from God... In fact many are recovering from abusive people like you! In that I have decided to reach out to the hurting, and lift them back on the path... To rise above abuse to be able to see Christ in spite of people who seem more interested in being right that they are blind to those they send to hell!

Really, all you have done is alienated people from you and those who think like you and from God... Not once in our dialog did you lift Christ up... Only yourself and your view of truth... Which is cold and lifeless. It is not Christ centered... but only set on a bunch of propositions you have strung together... and just like the pharasees, look in the scripture for life, and can't find it... because it is Christ Jesus you are looking for... and without Jesus indwelling you, you cannot understand what you read.

I have found that there is more intelligence and a deeper searching of Christ than what you have represented... You see I was where you are once... But Grace found me. I surrendered to Christ and have not looked back. I used to depend on MY KEEPING PERFECT DOCTRINE... And found I could not, but Jesus did... And I trust in the finished work of Christ.

So, now I add one more quote to your collection...

I have taken on littler men that you... And won.

By the way... I guess this must be close to home as you seemed to yelp very loudly, are you sure you are not a closet emergant?

Go in peace! Serve your god.
iggy

Monday, July 03, 2006

The Bible and Judging Others... Beware!

The Bible and Judging Others… Beware.

I have been battling a cold for about 2 weeks, which is funny as it seems every time I have someone start telling me I am a heretic or worse, (in love of course) I seem to come down with some sort of cold or flu right as it starts… it seems to set me into a very grumpy mood as I try to respond and not react to some of the nonsense that is thrown at me. The funny thing is many of these so called defenders of truth may actually be able to communicate with me and I might see something different if they approached me in a different way…

And that is also true in how we must approach those who are lost. How and why do we think anyone will listen to the “Good News” with all the added garbage… the doctrines that defend judgmentalism? Even Jesus did not come to judge, but to save us! (John 12:46-50)

Yet, some seem to be higher than Jesus and deem themselves worthy of being a judge over other men… which is anathema to the teachings of the bible… and of Christ Jesus! (Rom 14:4)

In there is a way that is biblical in how we judge the world and that is to walk in love… as we do this without fault and love God, then the world and the Satanic powers have no where to stand but in judgment as we deem God worthy of our love. So it is in Love we judge, not by some standard of righteousness we create. It is only as we stand in the righteousness of Christ, Who is worthy that we with Him please the Father.

In that when Christ returns then HE WILL JUDGE ALL by His righteousness and that being THE STANDARD. For some to stand on their own on that day is a sad thing indeed. Even worse is to stand in judgment now, as if you are Christ Himself… some sort of pseudo Christ, that deems his own righteousness as the standard… beware if you stand there as this is holding one’s own righteousness as equal with Jesus’…

This is true and if one does not see it they are blind…
Luke 6: 35.  But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36.  Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. 37. "Do not judge and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. NIV

Yet, some come to this blog as a so called brother and attack and condemn me in a way that even Christ Himself never did to a sinner, let alone one He called his own. In doing this you condemn yourself… not me… or anyone else.

You see you are usurping the authority of Christ as you stand as an accuser of the brethren, and with that you are standing not with Christ but with Satan for that is his nature and what he has done from the beginning… and that is his title… the accuser of the brethren. If you question this, then read in Rev 12: 9.  The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10.  Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
11.  They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. NIV

So, do you still want to stand in judgment? Then go ahead, and that is your fate. Do you still want to justify yourself by thinking your standard is greater… you will fall with your father the accuser!

So again, beware if you judge another… you reap what you sow, and that will be judgment upon yourself.

I heard a saying recently, it went like this.

If you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the one who yelps is the one you hit… think about that before you respond and try to justify your judgmentalism and condemnation.

Under His Blood… a beloved of Christ,
iggy

Wednesday, June 28, 2006

CHRIST HIMSELF THE CONTENT OF CHRISTIAN FAITH

By: Major W. Ian Thomas

There is something, which makes Christianity more than a religion, more than an ethic, and more than the idle dream of the sentimental idealist. It is this something, which makes it relevant to each one of us right now as a contemporary experience. It is the fact that Christ Himself is the very life content of the Christian faith. It is He who makes it "tick." "Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it" (I Thessalonians 5:24). The One who calls you is the One who does that to which He calls you. "For it is God which worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13). He is Himself the very dynamic of all His demands.
Christ did not die simply that you might be saved from a bad conscience, or even to remove the stain of past failure, but to "clear the decks" for divine action. You have been told that Christ died to save you. This is gloriously true in a very limited, though vital sense. In Romans 5:10 we read, "If, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." The Lord Jesus Christ therefore ministers to you in two distinct ways - He reconciles you to God by His death, and He saves you by His life.

This, however, is but the beginning of the story, "for if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, (now an accomplished fact,) we shall be saved (as a continuing process) by His life" (Romans 5:10). The glorious fact of the matter is this no sooner has God reconciled to Himself the man who has responded to His call, than He re-imparts to him, as a forgiven sinner, the presence of the Holy Spirit, and this restoration to him of the Holy Spirit constitutes what the Bible calls regeneration, or new birth. Titus 3:5 and 6, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour."

Friday, June 23, 2006

This just cracks me up!!

This just cracks me up!

I have been reading a comic called “Get Fuzzy”.

In this a guy named Rob has a cat named Bucky Katt … who thinks he is smarter than Rob and Satchel the dog. Meet the characters here.

What has been cracking me up is the last few strips have been about England and that Fuzzy does not think it exists…

Now, I think I relate to it from Rob’s perspective… how do I get this cat to understand the Truth (LOL!)

Yet, I bet many of you will think I am more… Bucky Katt. LOL!

#1 link

#2 link

#3 link

#4 link

Blessings!!!!
iggy

Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Tuesday, June 20, 2006

What is your faith built on? Incarnational Truth vs. Propositional Truth pt 2

What is your faith built on? Incarnational Truth vs. Propositional Truth

Ok, I am getting braced for the assault! LOL!

I found this phrase with John O’Keefe on his discussion group and think it is very much the same as I have been saying.

Is your faith built on the Bible and that being a group of Propositional truths grouped together?

Or is your faith built on the Incarnation?

Do you find Jesus in the Bible?

Or is the Bible your source of truth?

I see that Jesus is God, and this God was revealed throughout scripture… and as the bible points out (in red no less!), all scriptures points to Jesus!

Luke 24: 25. He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
26. Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?"
27. And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Then this Person, meaning Jesus being God incarnate… is Truth incarnate.

I see that the Bible is more than a group of propositional truths grouped together. I have built my faith first on the foundation of Christ… I filter my Truth revealed by Jesus through the Bible to match what has already been revealed and reason it out with Jesus (Who is alive!) as to how this revealed truth works out in my life. I do not live my life by the book so to say, but by the Life of Christ and then backed up by the bible…

The issue is many try to find life in the Bible… and He is there, yet just like the Pharisees of old they search and search and try to find life from the scriptures… Jesus had this to say!!!!

John 5: 37. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38. nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39. You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40. yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Notice that Jesus says that the Father’s word does not dwell in them? If the word does not dwell in them then they could not understand! Yet it because they did not believe the one the Father had sent… meaning Jesus. We need to first come to Christ (vs. 39) to have the Life… then as He dwells in us, we can then understand the scriptures and how they testify about Jesus.

It was after the resurrection of Jesus… and His revealing of Who He was and is… that the Scripture made sense.

John 2: 22. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

So, again I can not say I see the bible as a group of propositional truths that I am to live by as I see that scripture itself testifies that I am to live by the Life of Christ… in that I then can understand and grow in the knowledge of Grace and Truth.

Blessings,
iggy

I Have Been Pondering Something

I have been pondering something.

This year or at least the last couple of months I have had some people who disagree with me on what I have written… or rather what they presupposed me to have written.

Let me explain:

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. In fact I find it a great opportunity for myself and the other person to get to know each other, and talk it out. I have found God works out the “disagreement”. Often it is not that we disagree, but only that we are standing at either end of the topic. And with that it can take time to see that we agree but express it differently.

Sometimes in the course of conversing my mind may change, and though I don't go back and change the post, if one follows the conversation they will see, out of the conversation, development out of the original post. Does that make sense?

I am first to acknowledge that I often do not respond and often react. In that please remember I am only human! LOL! Really I have come a long way from where I was.

My issue is with those who come not to converse and discuss a ‘disagreement’ but rather come with the idea that they are all right and I am all wrong… just because they see “PM/E/e” somewhere. It seems to not matter at that point what I say. I am an apostate to them in my association as an “emerging”.

To me their argument is like this.

“I have just read, Nevada has recently declared it illegal to let your child sit on your lap while you drive. The law now states that for the child’s safety, the child must be restraint in a car seat in case of an accident. Though I love my child and love to let them sit on my lap I see that it should be illegal to let your child sit on your lap in the car while driving in any state.”

Now, I have found that if I said that the accusation from someone would be. “That iggy just said that he supports the state to not allow children to sit on their parents lap.”

Then quote me like this:

“Though I love my child and love to let them sit on my lap I see that it should be illegal to let your child sit on your lap.”

Which I did say, but it is then taken and put into a new context and then twisted to mean something I never said at all… then I say, “I never said that, I said, “Though I love my child and love to let them sit on my lap I see that it should be illegal to let your child sit on your lap in the car while driving in any state.” Which is replied with, “You are a lair!”

I agree that in the “new context” that was created, that I am then a lair… but not in the original context. LOL!

The next thing I found is that the argument is then around me being a lair or not! Here are some reasons for that. I think there is much wisdom here.

I found this article in which Brian McLaren points out some reasons this happens.

I will just give an excerpt here I really recommend reading the whole interview:

“Darren King: It is no secret that you have your fair share of critics. I think many of us realize that your critics often misrepresent you and your beliefs. I'm wondering if you could offer some insight as to why and how this misrepresentation takes place? How can those of us within the conversation be on guard against doing the same thing to others?

Brian McLaren: It's great you ask that last question, because I'd be more sad to see those of us who share this connection to respond inappropriately than I would to see the unfair criticism increase. As I said earlier, this is a real temptation that I and many face right now. I hope people will pray for me, and for all of us. Even if we avoid being overtly defensive or aggressive, it's too easy to become passive aggressive or to let the jabs come out in some sideways fashion. Lord, have mercy.I also think you're wise to ask why so much of the criticism is so inaccurate. It's good to try to understand the causes of things like this - and not just react. Let me do a brain dump of some of the reasons that come to mind, in no particular order. And it's important to say that I don't present these as diagnoses of any particular individual - just as general possibilities. And we're not talking about legitimate questions and dialogue, even vigorous debate: we're talking about the mean-spirited stuff that causes critics to make wild statements that even their friends would say are over the top.

1. Sometimes, I or others have not spoken charitably or wisely enough, and people have felt criticized or attacked, so they have responded with counterattack. In these cases, I am reaping bad fruit from sowing bad seed, and the pain of their unfairness can lead me to repent for any times I'm unfair.

2. Many religious communities feel under threat. Their numbers are declining. Their young people are leaving. Money is down. When any individual or organization feels threatened, it's easy to become testy, grouchy, or mean-spirited.

3. These stressed communities might love us if we offered the three easy steps to keeping their young people, or to bringing in lots of the unchurched. But when they listen to us, we tell them we don't think there are three easy steps. We tell them needed change will require deep rethinking and hard work and some pain. Some of them don't want to hear this, so there's probably a reaction to complexity and unwanted news that causes pain and creates a pained response.

4. Many of these folks, I think, have been trained unconsciously to work by fear. Fear (along with guilt) is a primary means of motivation in many religious communities - the fear of being rejected, corrected, looked down upon, or called "liberal" or some other epithet. It's weird to see "emergent" now become an epithet for these folks! When some of their young people - maybe their sons and daughters - are attracted to what we're doing, they understandably wish they would stay "in the fold," so to speak. So, they attack a few of us to make their flock be afraid of associating with us. It's a survival thing, I guess. In that case, the criticism is not even aimed at us: it's aimed at those in their fold who might leave or question things or work for change.

5. Many of the harshest critics come from fundamentalist religious traditions where hot and inaccurate rhetoric is acceptable whenever doctrinal matters are in play. That's just the way certain kinds of fundamentlists do business, and they have done so for centuries - Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, whatever. They've been trained in it, almost as a form of discipleship. They may even enjoy it, like an art form or sport. And they feel they are serving God when they do it, so it gets passed on from generation to generation. You can't blame people for this, since it's almost instinctual.

6. Some critics are playing to their constituency. They aren't trying to educate or correct us. After all, if they wanted to be heard, they're smart enough to know they should take more care to be accurate and charitable. But they're writing to show their strength and boldness and maybe their rhetorical cleverness to their community, proving themselves to others, or perhaps to themselves.

7. Some of them have never read or listened to us, but are reacting based on hearsay. So, they believe what they were told, and they're passing it on, since they trust the people who told them.

8. Some of it is just plain old sin, but sin of a particularly religious sort. Some famous person once said, "For bad people to do bad things, you just need an opportunity. For good people to do bad things, you need religion."

9. Some people are probably acting out of sociological or psychological scripts they don't even understand.

10. More significant than any of the previous possibilities though, there's some work in "systems-sensitive leadership" that I've found very helpful. The main book (of that title) is out of print and unavailable, but the idea is that people think and behave in the context of thinking systems. At certain levels - there are eight levels in the book I'm thinking of - people respond to perceived threat or disturbance with physical violence. At higher levels, the violence progresses to verbal, and eventually, of course, moves beyond violence altogether. Back in the Inquisition era, and even in the Reformation era, there was a lot of physical violence in response to doctrinal differences. So it's progress if the worst we get is some name-calling! And if we can respond with grace and good humor, perhaps we'll help our religious communities to move to some higher levels.”

Again, I have no issue if someone disagrees with me. If one looks at the links I have one will find people who regularly do not agree with me! Like Dan Carter, who in the course of discussion on our disagreements I have found to be very generous and Gracious.

I heard a quote which I am not sure where it came from, but it goes something like this.

“If two people agree totally on every point on everything, one of them is not necessary.” With that my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, I do believe you all necessary for Christ Himself found value in you, enough to die for you, and then to rise again and give you Life Eternal!

Blessings,
iggy

Sunday, June 18, 2006

I found this interview interesting!!

I found this interview via, faithmaps.com

http://pastortad.blogspot.com/2006/05/drfrank-page-answers-questions-for-sbc.html

This guy gets it!!

Dr. Frank Page: “I see many valuable contributions to the SBC coming from the Emergent Leaders Movement. I believe it is a positive thing to see a broader number of participants in our convention’s direction. I personally applaud this movement. I do want to speak a word of caution about a harmful message that possibly could come from the movement. As our convention seems to be breaking into a multitude of disparate groups, there is the possibility of an entitlement mentality coming forth. As I will say over and over, this convention does not belong to any one group. We are at the table by God’s grace and mercy. We must be very careful to feel that any of us are entitled to any power or influence at all.”

Blessings,
iggy

Wednesday, June 14, 2006

Born Free Presentation

This presentation would be what I wouldconsider the “foundation” of my belief structure.

Please view this link.

Born Free Presentation

Blessings,
iggy

A Question About My Blog Links

A Question About My Blog Links.

Miss Sara had asked me what links on this blog reflect emerging thought. I thought it easier to just post this than to use the comments.

Sara,
Sorry, I did not catch part of your question... but no not all I have linked to are, or of emerging thought. Many might even be against it... but the links below will give you a good overview of some radical and some more conserviative side of emerging thought... I would say i am conserviative radical... LOL!

Like I said, most are friends. Like Levi (emergent)
Punk monkey (emergent)

Some are from the Church of God as I find of interest that they are debating about a new reformation. This is part of what I believe... I do not see that The Reformation ended... or has come to pass... but i see it as something that must and should be the duty of a Believer of Christ to consider... what the “sound doctrine is “over” man made". What part of doctrine comes from tradition or just ones preference... such as CoG's position being debated on instruments used in worship.

Some might even be opposed to the emerging thought… I will not speculate on whom.

I have a link of Irenaeus on Free Will that talks about free will… I am not a Calvinist, nor Armenian.. Yet, I believe in eternal security, and free will. I will save Calvinism and Armenianism’s short comings for another time.

People to People teach Grace… I have a link to them to listen to Bob George. Also I have a link to their “Born Free Presentation” which is a pretty good straight forward presentation for salvation. Again, I love Bob George yet I would not agree on all points… He teaches the exchanged Life… as well as Major Ian Thomas.

A Different Perspective

A New Kind Of Conversation

Big Pappa

Brian McLaren

bob.blog

emergesque

Emerging Grace

Jordan Cooper

Leonard Sweet

Levi

nextChurch

next Church blog

Papa's House Blog

Postmodern Theology

praxis scripture study

Punk Monkey

TallSkinnyKiwi

The Next Wave

Ginkworld

Greg Boyd and Open Theism

Relevant Magazine

The Ooze

For the most part again the rest are friends or other ministries of interest to me… also I have an online Christian Radio station that helps indie Christian artist get airplay. But this is the list I would say would give you some insight to emerging thought. If you have any other questions please ask.

Blessings,
iggy

Sad to have to do this.

I have decided that only those who are registered with Blogger can post on my blog. This is to put an end to abusers as they can be reported.

I wish that I did not have to do this...

So yes, I did cut Ben off, but please feel free to register and return Ben, and begin your diatribe of abuse some more... But be warned I will report it for what it is.

If you decide to actually converse without your continued lying and false accusations I will allow you to continue but I will not tollerate abuse not give you a forum to abuse me or others.

Blessings all in Christ,
iggy

Sunday, June 11, 2006

THE BRICK

THE BRICK
I received this in my email…I do not know where it originated nor if it is a true story, yet I think it as inspirational.
Blessings,
iggy

THE BRICK

A young and successful executive was traveling down a neighborhood street, going a bit too fast in his new Jaguar. He was watching for kids darting out from between parked cars and slowed down when he thought he saw something. As his car passed, no children appeared. Instead, a brick smashed into the Jag's side door! He slammed on the brakes and backed the Jag back to the spot where the brick had been thrown.

The angry driver then jumped out of the car, grabbed the nearest kid and pushed him up against a parked car shouting, "What was that all about and who are you? Just what the heck are you doing? That's a new car and that brick you threw is going to cost a lot of money. Why did you do it?" The young boy was apologetic. "Please, mister...please, I'm sorry but I didn't know what else to do," He pleaded. "I threw the brick because no one else would stop..." With tears dripping down his face and off his chin, the youth pointed to a spot just around a parked car. "It's my brother, "he said "He rolled off the curb and fell out of his wheelchair and I can't lift him up."

Now sobbing, the boy asked the stunned executive, "Would you please help me get him back into his wheelchair? He's hurt and he's too heavy for me."

Moved beyond words, the driver tried to swallow the rapidly swelling lump in his throat. He hurriedly lifted the handicapped boy back into the wheelchair, then took out a linen handkerchief and dabbed at the fresh scrapes and cuts. A quick look told him everything was going to be okay. "Thank you and may God bless you," the grateful child told the stranger. Too shook up for words, the man simply watched the boy! push his wheelchair-bound brother down the sidewalk toward their home.
It was a long, slow walk back to the Jaguar. The damage was very noticeable, but the driver never bothered to repair the dented side door. He kept the dent there to remind him of this message: "Don't go through life so fast that someone has to throw a brick at you to get your attention!" God whispers in our souls and speaks to our hearts. Sometimes when we don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick at us. It's our choice to listen or not.

Friday, June 09, 2006

I walk the balance between Heaven and Earth

“I walk the balance between Heaven and Earth
Sometimes I soar, often I slip - but I am never alone.
He caught me; reached all the way from sky to sea
He pulled me out of that ocean of hate, that enemy chaos,
the void in which I was drowning.”
Psalm 18 - The Message

Blessings,
iggy

Monday, June 05, 2006

I have an affliction

I have an affliction

I suffer an affliction which I have written a bit in the past about. Not a physical one, which, yes I do have not one but many. Yet, this is one that rises up to alarm me and cause me some internal conflict.

I have never claimed to be educated, though I have spent much time reading and studying the scripture. I do not know Greek or Hebrew, yet I have a trusty Strong’s concordance and a basic understanding on how words are constructed. With these tools, God has shown me much.

My affliction is that I become tossed back and forth between the desire fro higher credentials, or even to have some or to remain as humbly uneducated as I am. In my mind I cross from trusting God completely and/or supplementing with more knowledge. Can God use both? YES! Yet, I also see many highly educated persons doing great things for God. Yet I also see many who have become puffed up with “knowledge” and though greatly blessed with education do not “understand”. One may say, “I know Greek.” Or “I know Hebrew.” And I say GREAT! Yet, the Pharisees did also! Some spoke to Jesus Himself and did not “understand”. So, Knowledge in itself can not bring understanding.

“Knowledge + experience” can bring clarity and bring one closer to “understanding”, yet, one can “experience” and “know” and still not understand. One can experience riding a motorcycle, but yet not understand “being a biker”. One can “experience the great outdoors”. Yet, that experience can be but a taste of the understanding, yet not give one open clarity to understanding the experience.

Many stood at the cross, believers, unbelievers, mockers of Jesus and lovers of Jesus! Yet, all stood with knowledge and experience as they witnessed the cross and Christ Crucified. Yet, even in that “Karios” moment, which would not only leave an imprint on all that were present, but also leave an imprint on time and eternity, they still lack understanding!

It was only after the Resurrection and only after Jesus had shown Himself to these and explained what the Resurrection meant, did the disciples gain “understanding”. How?

Through their relationship with Jesus Who revealed Himself to the disciples!

So, again, the affliction is to get more education, which there is nothing in itself wrong…. Or to continue to rest in the purity of Revelation that comes from my relationship with Jesus.

Blessings,
iggy

Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Why propositional truth is not Biblical Truth

Why propositional truth is not Biblical Truth

(Note: I do think what is written is valid, though I have reconsidered that the title is a bit misleading… or could have been better. In that I would rename this; “Is your faith based on propositional truth or on Christ”. Otherwise I will leave it the same. 6/27/06)

In some recent discussions I found some that do not understand as to why many of us do not think much of propositional truth. First off as I have said before Truth is a Person… Jesus Himself.

The issue then is that some say that we are saying propositional truth is a farce, miss this nuance.

Propositional truth is only true “relative” to the situation.

Iggy loves cheese cake he often says, “I would never miss out on cheesecake!”

Iggy has the flue and feels like he is dying…. He is offered cheese cake and turns it down.

Both situations are “true”, I do love cheese cake and would never turn it down… thus my wonderful once stealthy body is no more!

Yet, in the situation of being sick, I do not care for much except to get better and the last thing I want is to throw up cheese cake!

What I am saying is that we can only say what is true, from our own knowledge perspective… which means that if we do not know everything there is to know we are missing something… which means we can not have true propositional truth as it is perverted by our experience and limitations as human beings…

Now saying that, God is in a very good position for not only having this “knowledge”, for He is That Knowledge itself in the person of Jesus!

To further this point, if someone thinks they have all truth wrapped up and believe they know all things, they are either God Himself, or insane…. Or at least very deceived.

To defend the position that we can come to knowledge of truth out side of Christ is a dangerous thing. If one believes in total depravity, and also claims to believe in propositional truth, they are in trouble as being a corrupt and fallen creature, we would filter that pure truth and pervert it by the fact we are totally depraved! If you are not a Calvinist, being that “all have sinned” there may have been a time that we could receive truth in it’s pure form, and that is called innocence, yet, the scripture says ALL have sinned and fallen short the Glory of God! So even if innocence could be carried to the farthest extreme, we do fall, and in that no longer can see truth in it’s purity as we are now clouded in shame. Bonhoeffer calls this “disunion”. At the fall we became divided, we are between “self concealment, and self revelation” or “Between solitude and fellowship”… which is as he defines… shame.

In the state of shame we can not see things as they really are. That is why I sometime rail against a shame based faith for it clouds us from the Truth (Jesus). Only in Jesus do we have no shame. Only in the state of restored union can we then by our relationship with Christ Jesus, get to know Truth as we get to know Him.

Blessings,
iggy

Sunday, May 21, 2006

Do you live by doctrine or the Life of Christ?

Do you live by doctrine or the Life of Christ?

Colossians 2:20. Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
21. "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?
22. These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

I have been to so many churches that teach “principles”. They claim them to be godly, yet often I wondered if that was so. Many also push “belief”, which in and of itself has nothing wrong as we are to believe in Christ. Yet, again, so many place such high importance on “believing” as in “Keeping good doctrine.” I wonder if they have come to Christ at all. You see, I know of no doctrine that became a man, lived a perfect life, then died in my place by being nailed to a cross…. Nope I have searched the scripture for years and have not found a doctrine that had done that! LOL!

The Pharisees of Jesus day had perfect doctrine. They kept the rules like you would not have believed. They were as perfect about these doctrines as one could be… and you know what? Jesus was not impressed one bit. In fact He said things like, “Vipers!” “Whitewashed tombs!”, “You teach other’s to be twice a fit for hell as you are yourself!”

I think one might see Jesus was not fond of those who put doctrine before God!

Recently we had a talk to a young person who was excited to “get out of the house in nine months.” She was turning 18 and wanted to get out because her parents were a bit strict on the dress code. Now, I think that the parents have done a great job, with what they know, but she could not show her shoulders and had to wear a skirt well below her knees. Again, nothing wrong, except these rules never entered her heart. They never cleaned the inside of the cup so to say…. It only appeared to be clean on the outside. That is what Paul means here in verse “23. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” Why? Paul already told us in verse “22: … because they are based on human commands and teachings.”

When I say I do not see being right as that important this is what I am saying… what if my “righteousness” which what being right means, is all about me being self righteous and not about walking in the righteousness of Christ, which is our only True Righteousness. Modernists do not get that because they base their thinking on man’s reasoning and not the bible…. Or worse they have placed their beloved doctrine above God. They then depend on their own reasoning and not as the scripture tells us, “Ephesians 1:16. I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.
17. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
18. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you…” It goes on about “believing in Christ, As He is raised and seated in righteousness…

Yet, did you notice? It is not our mind or reasoning or knowledge that Paul prayed for, but the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation….Why? To know Jesus better…. Not to know doctrine better!

Now, again I am not against doctrine, I am trying to help us get a perspective on “sound doctrine”. As Paul told Timothy in 1 Tim 1: 8. We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10. for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11. that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

The Law has its use… if used properly, which I will write more on at another time. Yet, the sound doctrine conforms to the Gospel and that Gospel is the Good News of Jesus’ Resurrection! That Jesus was raise from the dead and I will be also! So many stop at forgiveness, which is what the cross was about… yet the Gospel is about the Life of Christ…. Or the Resurrection! If one takes time to read in the Acts what was taught… you would see that it was not the cross that was proclaimed, but the resurrection. That Jesus was raised from the dead…..

Acts 4

1. The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people.
2. They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

This is just one of many verses that back this up. The cross was only part of the Good News, but the Resurrection was the Good News!

Christianity is not about doctrines, rules or principles… The Gospel is about New Life and freedom to grow in the knowledge and Grace of Jesus Christ, those that think it is about anything else are as Paul states in “Col 2: 16. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
18. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
19. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

I do not want to lose connection with the Head! I want to walk in relationship with the Person of Christ… not live second hand by doctrines of man that can not save me.

Blessings,
iggy

A Google search that caught my eye

A Google search that caught my Eye

I look at my SiteMeter info at times and find some interesting searches that bring people to my blog. I had at one time around Resurrection Day (Easter), had 94 hits in one day! It turned out to be searches that were looking for a certain cartoon of a chicken that shoots out an egg and then says Happy Easter. I had posted it and though the link had broke many came and tried to access it through my blog.

I get many people from many nations. DNA seems very popular as a search. It seems that a post I did on “Whose DNA?” is still connected to a Google search of a picture of DNA I linked to. I get at least 5 a day through that search a day from all over the globe.

As far as readership I receive about 25 – 35 hits in a day…. Not bad for a little blog.

I will say this is the funniest search I have seen as of lately that had caught my eye.

“circumcision discussions in billings, mt”.

Unfortunately I had not written on circumcision… but rather it picked up on my discussion group on associate.com

Yet, there is much to say on the topic in the bible and maybe, soon I will do a post or series on circumcision…. In Billings MT. In that way it will be a Biblical topic that is relevant for today! LOL!

Blessings,
iggy

Saturday, July 08, 2006

Tuesday, July 04, 2006

Monday, July 03, 2006

Wednesday, June 28, 2006

Friday, June 23, 2006

Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Tuesday, June 20, 2006

Sunday, June 18, 2006

Wednesday, June 14, 2006

Sunday, June 11, 2006

Friday, June 09, 2006

Monday, June 05, 2006

Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Sunday, May 21, 2006

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