First off those at mychurch.com will notice that this was a comment in the last post. But since this blog is originally at Blogger.com, not everyone has read those comments.
I finally listened to Doug Padgitt on Way of the Master Radio... and first off... Todd Friel is truly a rude individual. Doug did a great job. What I noticed is that this will of course be touted as Doug is a heretic and a win for their side... but I see that Doug pointed out the issues that are in the so called "systematic theology" that Todd was pushing on that site. I do wish Doug expounded a bit on the difference of Todd's version of "systematic theology" and true "systematic theology" as Todd just pieced about four out of context quotes of Jesus and ran them together in a sick display of proof-texting that only showed that Todd was proving his own preconceived doctrine.
Now, I do also wish Doug (who I admit sounded a bit arrogant, yet truly under the conditions was way beyond being gracious to Todd's rudeness) also unpacked a bit more on the idea of the narrative story that he believes... I do get that "Heaven is not a place" in the sense that Doug pointed out to Todd, yet confess it is a bit hard to wrap one's mind around if all you know is the view that Todd has been taught and which as Tony Jones pointed out about 90% of Christianity believes... so I do see Doug could have slowed down and walked Todd through this a bit.
Yet, that being my only real critique that thing that is being touted is that Doug stated that a Muslim or Buddhist will enter the New Creation... in other words that he stated that someone can be saved without Jesus. To be truthful, after listening to it twice I did not hear Doug say that. I heard that all men will be judged the same. I also heard that we are to lead people to Christ Jesus. I do wish Doug connected the thoughts.
Now we are dealing with people who have an escapist mentality and theology... they believe in the "Left Behind" theology that truly even distorts the traditional "Rapture" theology. These people do not see that judgment is a good thing that will set things right... and Doug alluded to a bit stating that anything that is not of God will be purged... (Sorry I can't remember the exact phrase he used).
The flip side is that if one is on the other side of this judgment then you will be purged also.
Interestingly, Todd used the word "destroyed" when talking about people being judged... I see that if Todd believes that in his own "systematic theology" then he is a heretic as a person cannot be "destroyed" and be "tormented forever" for a destroyed person does not exist!
Which leads me to these thoughts which were a bit in the same vein as the conversation lead my at mychurch.com site.
I find it interesting that much that is taught in Romans 9 is that some are created for wrath and some are created for mercy... and then most Calvinists stop at verse 18 or 24... yet in the next few verses, Paul does the punchline and states that those very vessels of wrath did not seek God and found Him, while the vessels of mercy had God and now were to be judged by God.
What that means is that many are being deceived that they are vessels of mercy by definition of Calvin when in fact it is about Jew and Gentile being made into one man and the Jew thinking he is saved by being a descendant of Abraham by blood and have turned faith into works, are now vessels of wrath, while the Gentiles which were considered the vessels of wrath, are not vessels of mercy! And this all by Grace!
Again, it is in this subtle misunderstanding that I see things go askew with Calvinism.Now, as I stated, I see Arninianism having some quirks also... and many lean on works to maintain salvation which negates Galatians chapter 3 or really the whole book of Galatians as well the bulk of Paul's writings.
Still I see both as branches of Christianity, and in a sense both polluted by Gnostic/Platonic dualism which makes the whole a little warped as it over emphasizes the existing heaven and hell as eternal destinations and goal of our faith over salvation and eternal life in the New Heaven and New Earth... I just see that many are trapped in a faulty theology that denies that Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire and in one breath state men will burn forever and the other that they will be destroyed... it can't be both... but that is what is taught...
The New Creation, that we are now a part of as of the Resurrection and are called by Paul as believers... is the continuation and regeneration of all Creation being restored to and maybe beyond its original glory... I see that like we are resurrected and clothed in the imperishable it will still be us, that this will still be the earth and heaven only also clothed or purged of all evil and sin and what a glory that will be to behold.
be blessed,
iggy
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1 comment:
You are correct about Pagitt. I really like where he pointed but he failed to point clearly or even better, lead Friel a few steps in that direction. He stopped after pointing our Friel was wrong. He could have done more.
And you are right in that he did not say that someone without Jesus could be saved but he was clearly being asked that and refused to answer saying only that they would interact with God on that basis. The question was phrased in a way that demanded a better answer, i.e., "pastor, my Muslim family member has died ...?" Pagitt missed on that.
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