~ emerging thought in Montana ~

More on the TRUTH of it ALL


I believe that we are to accept where people are at in their journey... yet (by the standards that some of my critics have set....) if I was to look at their fruit... but unlike them I will not go there.


If the attacks were against me were just against the ideas expressed... I have not one bit of trouble with disagreement... in fact other emerging peoples and I often do not agree! Yet, with our foundation firmly on Christ... we can see past this and even grow from each others perspective... that is Grace and Mercy in action… in that we find in the Spirit of reconciliation we find Christ Jesus in our midst.

I have outgrown these men's perspective years ago... and that is why I plead for others to pray for them... I just have a hard time with those who think hate is a Christian value.

I accept they are in bondage to their limited view of Who Jesus was and is... their reality is that Jesus is trapped within a "system" (not just Calvinism/Armenianism) of belief that one can reason oneself to salvation... this belief bypasses and expresses another way other than Jesus to be saved... It is exclusive that one must "believe in a set of propositional doctrines" and that one must view Truth as "objective and impersonal"... They place man's reasoning higher than Christ Jesus Himself. They do not even realize they have done this!

Then instead of having a relational God, they justify themselves by their own perceived "fruits" defined as the doctrine they hold... If you hold true to the propositions you are "in"... Saved... if you don't you are "out"... But the deal is this... This is based on self justification and rationalization that they are then deemed righteous by their own works.

All that said, I have been there, done that and found Jesus Who became TRUTH incarnate to me... I have a Living relationship with Him... They claim this also, yet He can't be just propositions on a page... and stay there... He is those very words become Flesh!

I do not judge these men as far as their salvation as I would fear as to what I would see...
If you read what I write and notice how I define Truth, it this way:

Jesus = TRUTH (TRUTH Incarnate, TRUTH Absolute)
Truth = Jesus Teaching's (Truth in which can be propositional)
truth = (pure propostional truth) the result and awareness of the above two... yet often only in relation to our relative situation... which means it is not always Absolute... and may even be not true... it is perceived truth. In order to assure we have truth that is true... (There is a bit of tongue in cheek in that last bit).This is where human reason must depend on God’s revelation to help us sort through the filters of our minds that can corrupt and pervert Truth. (That is if you believe man is a fallen creature!) This truth depends on whether to source is a verifiable source... meaning if the source of the "if" is not Pure TRUTH, it may not be Truth or absolute/pure Truth... Get it?

I hope that will give a little clarity to what I am attempting to express. Many do not realize that they have accepted something less that Christ Jesus Himself… I am saddened that they fight against the Abundant Life that Jesus promised… this is not just about getting to Heaven… (though it includes that) nor is it about not going to hell, (again it includes that also) It is about Living in the Life that Jesus promised here and now also… a Life Lived out indwelled and dwelling in our wonderful Savoir and Lord… become One in Him as He is in the Father… It is about living as New Creation… Now.

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: Answers to my Critics, critics of the emerging church, emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/31/2006 09:44:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Are we now beyond emerging?

I think many people do not realize what has been happening, especially in the last year or so. What is happening is the solidifying of all these “emerging” thoughts. Many started out as postmodern, yet much of postmodernism is as much against the Christian faith as modernism is. I wrote a long time ago about being post-post-modern, which is in effect that we are about across the bridge between the post modern age, and into whatever is next… and of that what will we be called… and what will the Church be like in this new age…
(I was hesitant to use that term with it’s connotation of the new age movement, truthful the New Age started when Christ rose from the Grave and announced with that the New Creation had now come to earth and the Kingdom was now here. So in effect I see that if we had grasped there would not have been any issue as the pagans would not have been able to claim the “New Age” as it would have been already claimed by the rightful people, the Children of God.)

The term I have found is “Performatism” it is of course based on performance, but even more it is about bring all the postmodern deconstructionism and such in to a collective whole that in essence works… or delivers as it promises.

(Mind you I am just starting my research into this so my first post may be full of holes and wrong assumptions much over simplification. But, yet I will forge forth to try to convey what might be beyond)

Brian McLaren, maybe knowingly or not, has sort of tapped into this with Generous Orthodoxy, yet I see that really we are at the beginning of bringing together all of our thoughts and the things we have worked out and still have to work out. This again, just as deconstructing and revisionism and such will not happen overnight, I suggest it may take at least the next ten years to truly start to gel.

What I see in the future is this… and is already happening.

Many “emerging” will return to the modern view, it is simple to grasp and in a sense I wish I could. But these will either be looking for something to help gel their theologies to make sense. To me any system is as good as the next… the focus of the Christian Life is not a system, it is Jesus. Yet like layers on an onion, God will meet us where we are at. Keep this in mind as I will return to this thought I a moment

If we desire to stay within a system and follow Jesus, I think He will honor that (of course depending on the “system”). I see though that one is called to something deeper. Jesus called us to grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Him… so a static system to me will not allow one to grow… but a fluid theology will allow for growth. To me at least now, I see this works to bring me closer to grasping the incredible complexity that is God. .

I see some will stay in the post-modernistic world view… or keep hammering away… To me this is a good thing as if one is seeking, Jesus promises to be found. So if one is tearing down old paradigms, in order to find the real Jesus (I am not saying reconstructing Jesus in our own image, which is often what modernism has done). But if one is seeking the authentic Jesus again as I said, Jesus will be found.

Some will go beyond, as in Spencer Burke’s vision of living a heretic’s faith. (I will not go into Spencer’s book here, I will soon in another post finish the review.) For me it is not about denying the truth that is in the scripture for our own ideas but looking at these from a perspective beyond religion… religion as defined in going to church, paying tithes, living a nice clean life and supporting a missionary, (again there is nothing wrong with any of that, but if that is all you Christian life is, then you are missing out on the “abundant life” that Jesus spoke of. I may not agree with Spencer on many points, but as far as Grace, and living beyond what we now call Christianity is something that I think God will open up wide for us in the next few years. What I think of this group will fall into two categories even polarized into two groups.

1. An ideology based on humanistic reasoning in which truth is based on “what works for me”. This is not just implied in Humanism, but also in closed religious systems that though may not actually work, have become the “workings” of that individual and in which sole identity and structure depends on their person view and definition of truth… even if it is shared by many others… i.e. Religious systems such as fundamentalist Jihadism (Islam)… or fundamentalist Christianity. These in which rigidity is that focus and in many way the followers will interact in their closed system of belief which is based on human reason and the thought of working ones way through reason, rationalist thinking. I see in that the humanistic reasoning of atheism is no different that the modernistic Christian belief in the power of human reason and faith in propositional truth over revelation truth (Truth in the form of proposition must be kept in proper perspective in relation to the Person of Jesus) that is from the Source of all Truth, Jesus Who is TRUTH Incarnate.


2. This second group I find the most interesting as to the ramifications that can com of it. In essence I see that in all the postmodern deconstruct and reductionism, we will find the origin… and foundation… and in that build upon it and…. Find…. It …. Works. We will in a way if not find realized, the Kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. It will be “Kingdom Come”. We will find that our faith works. This will be in an integrated and organic way. We will find substance to our faith and actualization not of self, as in the modernist-humanist view, rather the actualization of self with in the whole of all this “workings”.

Of course this is a very simple over view and honestly I have not had time to study this out as I would like. As one who builds his faith on the foundation of Jesus… I can see that the potential of #2 is very exciting. The down side will be the polarization.

If one takes time, one an see that there is a correlation to all this and the prophecies of the end times. There will be a great polarization of human based faith against Faith that comes from God. We will most probably see wars rise as these two groups begin to understand who they are. I see that the first group will persecute the second… some of which I have already personally have received.

Yet, in all that I see the upside. What if this is the time of the Return of Messiah. Beware though I see that the false messiah will come in the cloak of those in #1. Yet, keep your eyes open and I believe the Kingdom will come with the return of Jesus, the One crucified and that Rose again.

The programistic view will be soley an "If... then continue." That is why it is imperative we understand the importance of Jesus Being TRUTH incarnate, as if the "IF" is not pure and from a verified source... such as TRUTH itself, and it is based on a false assumption, one's world view will shift into the Kingdom of Darkness. For Satan was liar from the begining.

I hope as I grasp more of this idea to write more on it. Fro more info I suggest this article by Raoul Eshelamn.

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/28/2006 02:55:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Here's a treat for your next gathering...

I had a areally good laugh over this from an email from... my mom!

Below is the email...

Blessings,
iggy

Read the ingredients and stuff first and then look at the photo...
Trust me...
Don't look at the photo first, but last...
This is for all you cooks out there looking for something a little different.........
Want to have fun at a party? Prepare this recipe!
Completely edible,but your friends may not think so!
On a recent visit to our veterinarian to get shots for our cat I found this recipe on the waiting room bulletin board. After recovering from hysterical laughter, I obtained a copy from the office staff so that my wife could make it, which she refused to do. I took it to work and gave the recipe to a lady at work who loves cats. The pictures below show the results of her work. It doesn't look very nice, but it's actually quite tasty, so I decided to pass it along.

CAKE
INGREDIENTS:
1 box spice or German chocolate cake mix
1box of white cake mix1 package white sandwich cookies
1 large package vanilla instant pudding mix
A few drops green food coloring
12 small Tootsie Rolls or equivalent

SERVING "DISHES AND UTENSILS"
1 NEW cat-litter box
1 NEW cat-litter box liner
1 NEW pooper scooper
1) Prepare and bake cake mixes, according to directions, in any size pan. Prepare pudding and chill. Crumble cookies in small batches in blender or food processor. Add a few drops of green food coloring to 1 cup of cookie crumbs. Mix with a fork or shake in a jar. Set aside.
2) When cakes are at room temperature, crumble them into a large bowl. Toss with half of the remaining cookie crumbs and enough pudding to make the mixture moist but not soggy. Place liner in litter box and pour in mixture.
3) Unwrap 3 Tootsie Rolls and heat in a microwave until soft and pliable. Shape the blunt ends into slightly curved point s. Repeat with three more rolls. Bury the rolls decoratively in the cake mixture. Sprinkle remaining white cookie crumbs over the mixture, then scatter green crumbs lightly over top.
4) Heat 5 more Tootsie Rolls until almost melted. Scrape them on top of the cake and sprinkle with crumbs from the litter box. Heat the remaining Tootsie Roll until pliable and hang it over the edge of the box. Place box on a sheet of newspaper and serve with scooper.

Enjoy!



Kitty Litter Cake

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Labels: emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/27/2006 12:46:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

After a month Blog Fast TSK is back!

Yeah that was old news… about a month old now.

I was reading in his blog and read the post about the discussion that took place “down under” and notice something Andrew stated over and over…

“But the emerging church he describes is NOT . . . I repeat NOT. . . [wait . . let me find the bold] . . . NOT the emerging church that i signed up for and NOT the emerging church that i sold the farm for.”

I have to agree. I will say that Andrew has much better knowledge and knows more of the “leadership” (using that term very loosely) than I might ever have a chance to. Yet here I am in the scope of my own critics, and reading other critics and wondering, “What are they talking about?”

I see many things that concern me, yet I believe the scripture also states the wheat and the tare will grow together and God will sort it all out… I believe Scripture!

Matt 13: 24 - 30. Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
"The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
"`An enemy did this,' he replied "The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
"`No,' he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"


Why do you appoint yourself to do what Jesus said will be done at the appointed time? Do you claim to be greater than Jesus?

As I read criticisms, I really feel like I am reading about another world other than the one I live. I am called a heretic, yet I affirm Christ’ death burial and resurrection. I have more personal attacks than actual criticism of the Emerging movement… in fact mostly what I get is person… from people who have never even taken the time to actually meet me in person. That is very un-biblical… in fact it shows a total disregard for the scripture they claim to believe… which in turn made me realize, maybe they do not really believe what they think they do!

What I am saying is what James says: Chapter 1:22-26

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

I do not see your deeds of love, but I do see you wag your tongue. I see someone who at least to me has a worthless religion, and is trying to get me to turn to it! You are just deceiving yourself with that thought.

Again, I believe Jesus was born of a virgin… began His ministry at His Baptism and did miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit… as He depended on the Father. This same Jesus was crucified, buried and then on the 3rd day rose from the grave… having learned obedience even unto death, to be lifted and glorified sitting as the Lion of Judah and the Lamb that was slain on the Throne of God… this same Jesus will raise all in judgment on the last day and give reward to those who not just heard His words, but did them… to those who did not there will be everlasting separation, which is called the second death.


This is Bible plain and simple. I strive in my life to live as Paul said:

Gal 2: 20-21. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

I guess what I am saying is that if I am not a brother in Christ, then what are you saying?

What I hear is this….

You believe that by reasons and rational thinking that one can read propositions live by them and then gain access to Heaven. Jesus though may be a person, or may not be nothing more than a proposition is/is not the TRUTH. (A bit confusing but that is what I hear you say… how can he both? How can you reduce Jesus to a bunch of words on a page of a book?

I hear that Love is not important because the number # thing on your list is:

“I am doing this blog to refute the Emergent. I do so for a number of reasons. First, Christians are to oppose , expose, and eliminate false teaching at every chance.”

I thought first we are to "`Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.'
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I hope that that verse looks a little familiar…I will let you look it up yourself. I think though these being Jesus’ own words… they should be believed!

You hold logic over the Holy Spirit revelation.

You hold knowledge and belief over a relationship with Christ.


I believe no one can be saved except by the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe it is by our relationship in Christ that we are a New Creation, having our minds renewed and our spirits regenerated.

The whole and only reason I do my blog is to share Christ Jesus in my life… to share the wonders and the change that has happened in me… and that is what you ridicule!

I am way past being angry. Anger does nothing but harm the person that is angry, so I released that to God and forgave you, living out my conviction by the Holy Spirit and by the same Power… and you mocked me again?


I find myself in a quandary as to how you expect me to “repent” when you have no idea how I actually live my life? Who are you to judge anyone? Again I turned to scripture to appeal to you “logic and reason” yet you rush it aside… which really only proves my point as to the fallacy of human reason…

Romans 2: 1-4

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment?
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?


Both my critics claim to have knowledge of Greek and one claims to teach Greek and Hebrew… Yet neither can read plain English! I believe the scripture… I see it for what it says and I fear for you on the last day! I pray for you daily so that God will reveal His Kindness and Love to you. I pray daily for you to receive the Mercy and Grace of this awesome and wonderful God!


And you still mocked me.

So, what do I do? I will continue to Live for Christ.. Let Him be my very life and continue to preach and teach Jesus as I have come to know Him… He is my Lord, Savior, King, Teacher, Friend, and Brother. (Don’t those words seem a little relational to you?)

My only appeal is to not let your reasoning, and propositions (which I do not deny but need to be in proper perspective in relation to Jesus) get in the way of the Person of Jesus.

As far as the caricature that you have drawn of me and others… I forgive you and will continue to as Jesus said to… so receive it or reject it… that is oft the proof of the condition of your heart not mine.

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/27/2006 11:36:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Setting things straight that some seem bent to lie about.

(Update: Even after pointing out that Phil was lying about John and myself, he continues to spread the lie that John was "losing his church". In fact the TRUTH is John is still going strong and has even expanded into a noew facility... but really Phil does not hold truth that important if he lies about people as he does. John 8:44 Jan 18, 2007)


I just finished talking to John O’Keefe of Ginkworld and of 247 connection in North Carolina.

In another blog it was stated that John was:

“Praise Part: When visiting theooze.com earlier today to research Spencer Burke, I accidentally learned that O'Keefe, who glorifies homosexuality, Communism, the drug culture, and still wants to be respected as a Southern Baptist pastor, is looking to move back to California. He evidently is losing his church or something of that sort. Thank God for that.” Phil Perkins


I chatted with john a bit and had to ask him about this ( which is sad that someone would gloat over a churches failure!) Yet it is not so as usual from the source that stated this. In fact it is a bold face lie… If you really read (Wednesday, October 18) what John is saying it is not about "losing his church" rather it is about asking for prayer and options! It seems as while some will kick people while they are down, John is seeking the high road. John is not saying part of the why at all here on this blog John is seeking God's guidance and friendly advice... and what is wrong with that?

John is not “losing his church”. John is looking out for his congregation. In fact it is honorable what John is considering as many of the pastors I know would even consider stepping down. And for what reason is John “thinking” about stepping down?

iggy 14u: I hope that all is well there @247
iggy 14u: Been praying for you....
john okeefe: going ok - we are just so tight with funds, it might be better if they did not have to pay me
john okeefe: thanks
iggy 14u: Things have been going pretty good here since we hooked up with the Vineyard.
john okeefe: sweet
iggy 14u: I am on the leadership team as an intern...
john okeefe: very cool
iggy 14u: We are moving into our first building... next Wed.
john okeefe: very cool - so things are going great - sweet, that is good to hear
iggy 14u: Hey, I heard the rumor from someone "gloating" over your "failure"... It just made me angry...
iggy 14u: I wanted to know from the source...
iggy 14u: I hope all works out there as, but i know that if God moves you back it is in His will and timing... not your critics!
john okeefe: lol - no failure at all just thinking about what is best for this community of faith -


I think the last statement speaks volumes to the integrity of the man.

It seems Phil Perkins is loose and a bit creative with facts… and quick to judge something then write about what he does not even really grasp…

I am not out to get Phil, I just am standing up for a friend, who grasps the love of Jesus and is praying about making the best choice for the flock God has given him. This is not failure… it is picture of sacrificial love a picture of Jesus.

As I read over Phil’s blog, I wonder… does he ever pray for any of us? Or is he just happy to spread rumors and slander… I won’t judge his heart, but I have my doubts.

On the other side I have always found John O’Keefe one who uplifts and edifies others. He has always been there for me as a friend…

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: Answers to my Critics, critics of the emerging church, emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/26/2006 11:15:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Boxing Kitten



This passage states emphatically Jesus is the Truth! John 17:17

John 17:17. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

In an article that is really not very good, a certain Gregory Koukl, tries to show that the emerging church is teaching a lie, or I will give him this, a half truth…

He seems to think that in this passage that Jesus is saying that God’s word is truth… meaning from his misunderstanding of that the word “word” in this passage actually says in Greek, that it must mean something other than Jesus Himself. My bet he thinks it is "scripture"... again, it does not.


In the Greek in John 1 the Word for “Word” is Logos, if one just take a second to look this passage above in the Greek… it is Logos… so Jesus states, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word (Logos) is truth”. So what Mr. Koukl is actually doing is denying Jesus is the “Logos” that John carefully sets up in the very first sentence of this same Gospel… talk about a convoluted argument! What the issue is, is that Mr. Koukl is denying the Trinity in this article… for Jesus is the incarnation of the Godhead… the God made flesh… or Logos, He was also the written word of God…. Or Torah. God is Spirit, yes, and he came and dwelt amongst us… and we did not see Him for who He was, nor do some see Him for Who He still is…

God with us… made flesh.

I will and have always proclaimed the Risen Jesus as Lord, Saviour and the Logos… the One through Whom all creation came. Jesus is not just words on a page in a bible… that just teaches us by propositions to live a good lives, He is Alive and now indwells those who believe on Him… and Lives His Life in and through those believers…

Phillippians 2: 12-13. Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

It is by the work of God in us and through us that we are perfected in the faith… It is the Life lived (Jesus’), not living a good life. We do believe that propositional truth plays a part in our faith... as all TRUTH comes form the source of all TRUTH and that is Jesus... funny that these modernist can't grasp that in it's simplicity! What they are in fact promoting is humanism... plain and simple. It is the belief that man is able to "based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities—particularly rationalism" . None of this affirms the teachings of Scripture... in fact cuts across the very grain of man being a fallen creature. I see that the one good thing about postmodernism is that it has the calling to remind modernists that we are in a fallen world... and that secular enlightenment is a false system of belief that man can reason himself out of the wages of sin... which is death. This is in fact teaching that man can save himself apart from Christ Jesus.

I live the Life of Christ and not my own… I do not live by just understanding propositions apart from Christ. You cannot separate the Life of Christ from Truth. You can not learn by human reasoning your way to heaven, but only by surrendering to the Life of Christ and letting God make you a New Creation… empowered by His Spirit, and living by the Eternal Life and power of the Resurrected Savoir Who is Jesus… Who is TRUTH incarnate. To deny that is to deny the very foundation of the Christian faith.



Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: Answers to my Critics, critics of the emerging church, emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/26/2006 08:39:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Phil Perkins version of the truth is a lie...

Here is the email I sent to the president of Yellowstone Baptist College concerning the lie and false rumor Phil Perkins is spreading about me that I was going to sue them...


Dear Mr. Shelton,

Would you be willing to meet with Mr. Perkins and myself sometime next week to see if we can resolve this crisis?

In Christ,
Bill Phillips





Stacy Stewart
Administrative Assistant
Yellowstone Baptist College
1515 S. Shiloh Road
Billings, MT 59106

-----Original Message-----From: iggy [mailto:iggy@wwdb.org] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 8:49 AMTo: General mail boxSubject: lawsuit


Dear President Phillips,


Apparently it is being said I am planning on suing your college. That is a great falsehood. I have no plans in that. I am only asking you to do what is RIGHT and BIBLICAL in this situation and that is to ask Phil Perkins to stop slandering me and misquoting me and attacking me and my ministry.


It is not right for him to do as he has. He claims I am not doing as the bible says yet I have.


I have contacted you in private, or as privately as I am able.
I have had at least two other neutral parties to ask you to stop Phil in his sinning against me and the Body of Christ.


Phil has gone straight to the public with his judgments of me… before he even had the first communication from me. He raised accusations against me public ally and never gave me a true opportunity privately to even talk to him.


I am not or will not or have ever meant any ill will toward you or your college. I have always supposed that you are a fair man and are looking into this matter. I did have a real issue with your lack of communication.


All I am asking is and was is that for the sake of the Body of Christ, you ask Phil to stop his lies and mistreatment of the truth on this matter.


If this needs to go to a third party I recommend a man of great reputation in the area. Fred Nelson. He can let you know what he thinks of me.


I am saddened by this. Phil seems to think by spreading hate, he is doing something for the Kingdom… He accuses me of hate yet I have never said I have hated him. If he is a brother in Christ I only want reconciliation as the scripture calls for. For when two or more gather together Christ is there…. That is the true context of that verse… reconciliation…. I only want Jesus to be glorified in our midst.


I will add this. By impugning and my beliefs, which he as never truly represented, he is also impugning many of the finest churches who also are influenced by Emergent or emerging churches…. Such as Vern Streeter of Harvest, Faith Evangelical, Faith Chapel and that is the big three in town.


I see that Phil is not just harming me with his lies but all of these churches also since Harvest is mentions on the ooz.com.


Again, this is not just about me; it is about the Kingdom and bringing unity instead of division.


If nothing comes of this… I forgive you. I have already forgiven Phil Perkins.

Blessings,

Carlos Shelton (aka iggy)


I will make one correction on something i was wrong in this email. Harvest Church is not linked to theooze.com. I have though talked to Vern Streeter, the pastor and he said straight out he is "very much immersed" in postmodernism. The recent church plant from Harvest, Journey Church was the one that did have a link, though at this time they have a new web address and have not updated the one on theooze.com.


And again, I still and do forgive Phil... and yes I do read your blog... I even have been asked if I write it because people thought it was satire! Again, hate is not a Christian virtue Mr. Perkins... If anyone just does a search on this blog you will see how full of love Phil is... it is really sad. Your hate speech is why I banned you from this blog. I really do nto see how reading your blog is at all "DISHONESTY, HIPOCRISY, DECEPTION, OR UNDERHANDEDNESS?" (unless that is what you think ofthe people that read your blog?) I linked to your blog to show what you actually said, so that readers can actually read your own words and BLOGGER added a link to your site... not me. (I did notice you turned that feature off... without acknowledging that you did... makes me wonder...about the dishonesty, hipocrisy, decption and underhandedness stuff you claim.)


Also, I guess you did not really mean that you would debate me in any way or forum... this is a forum, I read what you wrote and debated it... so??? I guess you changed your mind??? Again, I don't really care at all what you believe or say about me, just don't keep lying that I threatedned to sue anyone. ... Ialso don't care because you don't know me and those that do... laugh at what you have said about me! My God will vindicate me... And already has in so many ways!


To me this is not personal... but he seems to think it is. I do not care what those who have called themselves to be self appointed watch dogs have to say about me.I am no longer amazed on how deep these people's hate can go, so I rest in Christ and continue to pray for them.


Blessings,
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/26/2006 05:16:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

I have now become an entire nation!

Check this out.


J/K

FYI, in chat rooms to "iggy" someone is to ignore them... this seems to be some political website in Canada. But it does get me thinking... maybe I should aim higher...

Blessings,
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/26/2006 07:31:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Brian McLaren being Censored?

I just read in good ole Phil Perkins blog that Brian McLaren has been banned at the local Bible book store… that is so sad. Yet, I don’t think that is true as if they have, then why do they still sell Brian’s books on their website?

If Mike Wall has expressed concerns or as Phil states: “. To my surprise not one of his books were there. I asked the lady at the register about it. "Oh, no. We don't have him." "Why?" She explained they had concerns about him.”

If this is true then why the hypocrisy of selling on the website? (Just do a simple search for Brian McLaren's books). At least come clean and sell them in your store. One of the best books on evangelism I have read was More Ready Than You Realize: Evangelism as Dance in the Postmodern Matrix.

Let Mike Wall know you want to read the book that interest you (be polite of course)… if he wants to pull some books many of the Word of Faith books, Copeland, Hagen and such have much more harmful teachings than the thought inspiring books of Brian McLaren.

If Mike Wall wants to cower to people who attack others and judge and condemn them, then if that is who you support, I will not buy from your store. Hate is not a Christian virtue and that is what is spread on Mr. Perkins blog… just read it!

I will not support those who support that type of hate.

Concerned,
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/25/2006 09:29:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

I really did not want to do this, but the value jumped up consideralbe in the last month!

It was only worth about $2400 last time I looked. It is not much when you compare it to someone like this!

So where ya gonna spend all that loot Andrew? LOL!

Blessings,

iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/25/2006 01:28:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

New Bible Translation... Cut and Paste!

When I was reading one of my newest fave blogs… JR Woodward, I came across a new Bible translation. (If translation would be the right word for this!)

Now this is the sort of thing I think some of my critics read the Bible anyway…(LOL! The tongue was in the cheek my friend!). Yet many people do seem to read the Bible in this way so why not let them buy this version and keep consistent to their belief?

Here is an excerpt of the article.

“A new Bible translation is causing controversy after it cut out difficult parts surrounding economic justice, possessions and money.The new bible version, released by the Western Bible Foundation in the Netherlands, has created a storm by trying to make the Christian gospel more palatable. According to Chairman Mr. De Rijke the foundation has reacted to a growing wish of many churches to be market-oriented and more attractive. "Jesus was very inspiring for our inner health, but we don't need to take his naïve remarks about money seriously. He didn't study economics, obviously."According to De Rijke no serious Christian takes these texts literally.”

I sadly agree with the last statement as, but I would say “most Christians” instead of “no serious Christians”. So why hasn’t old S1!cE of Layoddandseeya written on this one yet? Now will someone please tell me this was all a joke? This really looks like something from LarkNews.com

Blessings
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/24/2006 11:25:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Here is a bit of someone’s personal experience of Jesus as Tao.
I found this article quite interesting after my post on the topic
Again, this is not an endorsement of Taoism; rather it is a look a one religion that seems to have a lot in common with Christianity. From the commonality one can bridge the gap and open the door to Jesus… the One Whom all things were created through. The idea is that through understanding the culture, and the people’s religion, one might find a “way”, to lead them to the one True God. In that it is also trusting that God is God and active in this world reaching people so we can come and be blessed as we help with the harvest. Here is a link to one man’s personal journey and insight to this idea of Jesus as the Tao.

Blessings,
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/23/2006 01:23:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Salvation is so much more than personal
The Story of the Seeds
Luke 8: 4-8As they went from town to town, a lot of people joined in and traveled along. He addressed them, using this story: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. Some of it fell on the road; it was tramped down and the birds ate it. Other seed fell in the gravel; it sprouted, but withered because it didn't have good roots. Other seed fell in the weeds; the weeds grew with it and strangled it. Other seed fell in rich earth and produced a bumper crop.
"Are you listening to this? Really listening?"
9His disciples asked, "Why did you tell this story?"
10He said, "You've been given insight into God's kingdom—you know how it works. There are others who need stories. But even with stories some of them aren't going to get it: Their eyes are open but don't see a thing, Their ears are open but don't hear a thing.
11-12"This story is about some of those people. The seed is the Word of God. The seeds on the road are those who hear the Word, but no sooner do they hear it than the Devil snatches it from them so they won't believe and be saved.
13"The seeds in the gravel are those who hear with enthusiasm, but the enthusiasm doesn't go very deep. It's only another fad, and the moment there's trouble it's gone.
14"And the seed that fell in the weeds—well, these are the ones who hear, but then the seed is crowded out and nothing comes of it as they go about their lives worrying about tomorrow, making money, and having fun.
15"But the seed in the good earth—these are the good-hearts who seize the Word and hold on no matter what, sticking with it until there's a harvest.
(The Message)


I have often read, taught and heard sermons from this story and passage. It is also in Matthew 13 and Mark 4 with slight variance. It is interesting to note that most often it is used in evangelism. I do not see anything to the contrary, yet I have been seeing more than that in this passage. Really this is not just about personal salvation, but as the passage states; “insight into God's kingdom”. This means of course this is much bigger than ones own personal salvation. This holds in it the revelational relationship we hold as we are immersed and become literally part of the Body of Christ collectively. Meaning we are saved on a personal level, yet end welled with the deity of the Creator. We are not “deity” in that we become God, rather we are brought into a much bigger picture of the fullness of redemption or the salvation of all creation. We are in fact part of the “mystery” of God. Again, this is very personal, yet so much more than just about me… It calls into play the “New Creation” or rather as N.T Wright states in a lecture on “Jesus and the Kingdom of God” at the Salt and Light Leaders Conference in the Greek reads in 2 Cor 5: 17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!. Notice that it is not “a new creation” but simply “new creation” which implies much more than being just about my own personal salvation.

Romans 8: 16 - 23. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. NIV

Notice as the sons of God are revealed, creation will be brought out of subjection of death and decay, and brought to freedom of the children of God. In other words as we are revealed as to who we really are in Christ, the world will be brought out of bondage and freed… within that story that is the mystery that is being revealed we find in 1 Cor 5 we are a part of “New Creation” and not just simply a new creation. Furthering of this thought is the idea behind the “new Heavens and New Earth. Peter touches on this in 2 Peter 3:10 – 13 as he explains how this earth and all its elements will be burned up and the ungodly will be judged at the final judgment. The story of the redemption of this creation and its being “New Creation” is summed up in Revelations chapter 21. This is “salvation” in the Bible; personal, yet so much more.

Another point is Jesus is talking to the Jews in the passage in Luke 8. These were those who claimed Abraham to be their father, and in that claim the Abrahamic covenant on themselves. That is true, yet the biggest part of that covenant is basically, “I will bless you and you will be a blessing to all the earth.”

Gen 12: 1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
2 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
4 So Abram left, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Haran. 5 He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.
6 Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. 7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring (Or also translated seed) I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD, who had appeared to him.
8 From there he went on toward the hills east of Bethel and pitched his tent, with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar to the LORD and called on the name of the LORD. 9 Then Abram set out and continued toward the Negev.
Out of Abraham would come a nation that would be blessed to be a blessing to all the nations. And out of that nation would come a seed (Jesus) would bless the whole earth.

Paul touches on this in Galatians 3: 16. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
“The seed is the Word of God” or rather Jesus Himself. So many times I have heard it taught to be the Bible, when in fact the passage is about Jesus being received into the hearts (the soil) of those who received the seed.


Let’s look at those who hear the Seed.

1. The first hearer does hear, but the devil snatches it before they can receive it. Their hearts were like a cement or rocky road.


2. The seed sown on Gravel is heard and the hearer becomes very enthusiastic. Yet, this is not the same as receiving the seed. Enthusiasm does not save one. In fact enthusiasm is often very deceptive as one can look and seem very much like that person is saved yet without the Seed planted in their heart, they are still very much lost. Enthusiasm comes in many forms. It is the difference between a fan of the sports team, and being a player. One can wear the colors, and cheer and become very excited over the success of their team, but they will never receive the salary or a player, nor say if their team wins the Superbowl, wear the Superbowl ring knowing it came from their success. (Don’t go too far with that analogy as I am not saying we must earn salvation like a football team, rather the focus is on just being an enthusiastic fan.)


3. The next Seed falls among weeds. These weeds seem to be more of distractions in the form of people with priorities other than the Kingdom of God. “as they go about their lives worrying about tomorrow, making money, and having fun”. These weeds do not live by faith, but it seems they live just as anyone else who is without Christ in their heart. One clarification here; there is nothing wrong in having “fun” unless that is your only focus… which is the main point of this. It is the preoccupation with one’s “Self” and having no focus on others. It is often manifested in one needing to be “right” or “self righteous” and looking at others in disdain or contempt as people less than one’s self. It is placing your own desires, ambitions and righteousness over another in judgmentalism and condemning them. This is what Jesus spoke of when He said in Matt 16:6 "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."


4. The last ones of course are the ones God desires us to be. The one’s with the heart that seizes Jesus and hangs on… I prefer what the Amplified version says “But as for that [seed] in the good soil, these are [the people] who, hearing the Word, hold it fast in a just ([d]noble, virtuous) and worthy heart, and steadily bring forth fruit with patience.” The Seed will only grow in the right soil…

The Seed will only grow in the “worthy” soil… so what is this “worthy soil”?

It is the person who sees that they must seize the Kingdom… remember this is what the passage is about as Jesus stated, “You've been given insight into God's kingdom.” It is the ones who not just receive by hearing, but actively take and seize Jesus… and in doing that are changed and bear fruit. Notice it does say “with patience” so one should not expect to bear fruit overnight. Most often you will see much changed in your heart as you possess Jesus, yet believe me, that is just the beginning of the journey and not the end and completion of it. It is as we hold fast and persevere we bear fruit. Often the persevering will be in the form of struggles and even persecutions. Even so, I encourage someone who is new to the faith, that this journey is not easy… in fact it is often hard to bear… yet in those times we must trust even more in Christ. As you do that you will find that the burden then becomes lighter and easier and something in you will change. That is you character or your inner person, the New Creation… the New You in Christ.

I hope to write more soon on "New Creation"… It is a rich and wonderful promise that is not just coming but is now active.

Blessings,
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/22/2006 10:47:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Criticism of the Emerging Church: Why we do not hear you.

It is not that we do not want to hear anyone, in fact if we of “emerging” want more is to hear and exchange points of view. We truly desire dialog… we truly desire to share and explore… we even desire to have “sound doctrine”. The conversation is not about just wanting to hear what we want, in fact more often it is hearing what we don’t want, what we do not see happening, when words are just that words… and often from the modern church we see and hear this story played out as the goats seem to attack us and we fear when you won’t listen:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


We perceive that often our critics are in denial of their own short comings… that one does not see that “all have sinned and fallen short the Glory of God”, and if that is a truth, be it “propositional” or “relational” or both… we all need a savior. In that if you are a critic and do agree with me that we are all “sinners”, then remember it is by Grace we are saved and not by our own doings. So the same Grace that saved you also saved me. I see it that to deny this is a slap in the face if not placing the nail in the wrist of Christ. It is the denial that the same power to save you can in fact save someone else.

So often our disagreements are not based and approached with this Grace in mind. Also the very Mercy that is displayed by this Grace, is lost. To place ones own doctrine over a person is as Jesus said in Matt 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Often in your criticism we see that you are more into the fine details of “doctrines” which are lost in your lack of “love” which in the passage quoted is defined as “justice, mercy and faithfulness”. We are to see God’s justice and realize we are all lost, and receive His great mercy, in that the result should be faithfulness. We in essence get lost in your approach and ruthlessness and cannot hear what you are saying.

Often as we are also just human we respond as we would not want. I have seen really good godly men get caught up in rhetoric and in a flash get caught up in the trap. Yes, that is another reason we do not listen to you. We see and hear a trap… much like the traps the Pharisees used to “get” Jesus in His “heretical” ways. So often you are not criticizing us, but rather mocking us. In your questions, you seem to be more like one who hisses at us, much like those who mocked Jesus… Some, which has included myself have tried to engage with you and tried to talk, yet all we get is sarcasm and mocking. In that, why would we want to converse with you? Why would we want to listen to you if you come across as that abusive relative who drinks too much and calls you fat at the family gathering? We just do not care for your abusive behavior. Remember also people will respond in kind to how you treat them. So if someone is angry with you, the problem may be in how you approached them in the first place.

Do some of our critics have legitimate things to say? YES! And some do know how to engage and communicate and do talk to us… and we do listen as we too have many of these same concerns over these issues.

I have mentioned that the “conversation” we talk of is huge, yet as in any room where many are talking some have louder voices than others. Am I concerned about Brian McLaren’s view (or possible view) on hell? Yes. Yet which is more important, that we agree that God torments those who he cast into hell? Is it more important to be “right” that one is annihilated, tortured, purified, or whatever, than to collectively agree that it is better no one has to find out what hell is like at all? Would it not be better to lead one to the Kingdom, than to teach about a place no one would want to go?

Hell is important, and I am not saying in any way we should diminish it nor its place in the scripture, yet, I see it as really silly to fight over such non-salvic doctrine. Often I agree to disagree and then teach what God has shown me. Again, to me it is more important to lead someone to Christ than to get them to believe exactly how bad hell is or that there is even one or not. To have a relationship with God through Jesus is the main thrust of our being as Christians.

We seem to be able to agree to disagree within “Emerging”. Respect is one of our values we hold high, so disrespect is not given much credence. Many do not agree with the loudest voices… many are trying to help others realize that some things are not in accordance with the teachings of Christ. Again, here I am talking within the circle of “Emerging”. Do I listen to Brian McLaren… yes and agree on many more points than I disagree with. In this then we can have points of contact in order to relate and build a possible relationship with… in that then earn the right to tell the other where there may be something wrong in some areas of their theology.

Often I see that there is a major emphasis on Christology in the “Emerging” talk, and if one is “bible based” (which is neither a criticism nor a bad thing) we are perceived as not thinking the Bible as important. On the contrary, we hold the Bible very highly. We may see things a bit differently yet that in most cases is not always true.

What I see in this case is many are discovering the Life of Christ in us, and are accused that we must “believe doctrines” over our experience. I can see both side of this on going argument. Yet, what most modern thinkers miss is we do not see it as an “either/or” as you are presenting, but a “both/and”. We are able to grasp that we must live our life experientially at the same time base our walk on the teachings of scripture. We just see it as coming from Jesus first then going to the Scripture, as I have seen most of the critics come from the “propositions” of Scripture then base their faith on them to believe in Jesus. In my life I found that the Bible is a supplement to my relationship to Christ Jesus. That as scripture states, Jesus began writing His teachings on my heart, (Jeremiah 31) and the bible is there to clarify these teachings being etched on my heart by the Holy Spirit. What I hear from my critics is a lack of the Holy Spirit in their theology. It tends to be more based on their ability to follow “propositions”.

The effect you have on most of us is only more validation of what we believe. Think about that… if you are a critic, and if you are right, then you are creating a situation that is sending people to hell… This is not “blame shifting”, just an observation. You yourself use this argument at times when you think we are preaching against holy living and claiming we are being “worldly” leading people astray. We see that most of our critics are more concerned about the outside appearance than the inside and what God may be doing. More outraged by a swear word than if someone is starving to death in their own alley behind their fine home or as the story goes about Tony Campolo that 10,000 children have died today… and you get hung up on a swear word. We just have different values as we care more of the 10,000 children than if someone uses a swear word. Do I like vulgar language? No, yet God used Jeremiah he can use today’s Jeremiahs also.

Also, people tend to become more entrenched with their beliefs if cornered and argued with. That is why kindness is much more effective than finger pointing. Remember it is God’s Kindness that leads us to repentance.

Romans 2: 1-6

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God "will give to each person according to what he has done."


With that I end with this scripture:
Romans 12:16-21
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

My prayer is that we can learn to live in harmony with one another… not to be neither proud nor conceited, not seek position of favor and forsake the lowly, to live lives worthy of the call, and to live in peace with all as best we can. To not seek vengeance o those who harm us to love our enemies so that we can over come evil with good.

Blessings
iggy

(A side note here: To you who have websites that are out to criticize me on a personal level... If you truly have integrity and are trying to be honest in your "criticism", at least put links in your blogs to the post you are lambasting... it would be only fair for your readership.)

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Labels: critics of the emerging church, emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/19/2006 03:04:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Since I have added Technorati tags I have notice more traffic. Not much more but it seems that in the past I was consistently having about 30 visitors a day. Now it seems to be moving up to around 40 or more. As of tonight I am at 50 visitors in just to day and I still have about 3 hour left. The highest day was around Thanksgivings last year as I had over 90 visitors... Mostly they were looking for a thanksgivings turkey game i had linked to. So, so much for think it was all about me! LOL! Truthfully this blog is not meant to be just about me. Yes, it is about my walk and discovering how to walk out my faith in the Postmodern age, but more it is about sharing this experience both good and bad with others who are on a similar track. It is amazing how many of you may not post, yet email me personally to share your experiences and pains and joys in your journey. There is a great blessing to be able to pray with you and encourage one another.

I just wanted to share some of these stats... Just to let you know how this little blog, which I never thought would be anything, (which in comparison to some others is not much at all, and i even confess feeling foolish to even try... So I won't... I have found there is danger in that anyway as we tend to focus on keeping up and trying to impress, and losing sight of what our focus should be. So here they are:

Stats are pretty interesting. As for the last month or the 18th to the 18th in this case I have had about 22 to 50 visitors a day... With these people viewing (and most likely reading) from 30 to over 150 pages on any given day.
This is the view of just a typical week (Wed to Wed) the daily visitor is from 20 to about 45 (or 50 as of today as I started this post late this afternoon and the stats have changed a bit for today). Yet, last Monday, people read over 130 pages... I did not even know I had that many pages to read!
I am not sure as to how to interpret this graph... as best as I can tell it is saying that I have had well over 200 visits per month... with page views no lower than 600 and up to over 2400.

This is today's as of about 3:30 pm... Again the numbers have changed as of 9:00 pm, yet the i am amazed that how the numbers break done during the day. I have a very heavy readership between 8 and 9am. Spiking again at about 4 to 5 pm... I am pretty sure there is a spike around 8pm also. The thing about this is many of my readers are from different countries... Many in the UK and Asia...Even China and India... So if one notices there is a spike at about midnight to 1:30 am. This is most probably because as it is night time here, it is daytime there. (Yeah you were smart enough to figure that out... But it took me a bit to though! LOL!)

Again, none of this is to brag about myself, as I am amazed that this little blog from Montana has such a high international readership. I pray and hope that I am as much a blessing to you as you are to me.

As of midnight tonight I had 63 visitors... not bad... and thanks! Part of the reason I did this post is because I saw I had gone over ther 10,000 page view mark.

The end of today looked like this:

Total visits to date for installing sitemeter: 10,216

Average Per Day 29
Average Visit Length 3:55
Last Hour 5
Today 63
This Week 202

Total Page views: 26,975
Average Per Day 65
Average Per Visit 2.3
Last Hour 8
Today 165
This Week 457

Blessings and thank you,

iggy

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Labels: emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/18/2006 05:01:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

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Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/18/2006 09:00:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

My Sex Life Stinks…

Well actually my wife and I are pretty happy in many ways and have been able to work through much that some still struggle and try to deal with.

I get heat at times because I consider gays and lesbians “my neighbors” and believe Jesus’ words to “love your neighbor as yourself”. In this what I am against is unhealthy relationships. Believe it or not I have seen homosexual relationships that are more nurturing and loving than many straight-conservative and supposedly God ordained relationships. Yet, in these straight marriages often abuse, be it physical, mental or in some way of controlling the other is very prevalent. This is not a “God ordained” marriage any more than one is if the couple is same sex… it is sin… plain and simple.

I am for healthy marriages. Healthy loving relationships where each person can nurture and build each other up in love. And to the surprise of my critics I believe the very first step toward the union of a man and a woman, who seeking God in their lives first, join together in Holy Matrimony. That is the Biblical definition of marriage. To quote a friend on this topic as we discussed it a few years back, “God will not honor an ungodly marriage so in the eyes of God, there is no marriage between Gays and Lesbians who seek to be married outside of God’s view. They can call it whatever they want, it is not being married in the eyes of God though”. (Some of you would be very surprised who this was BTW.) We both agreed that something must be done about health care, which was another issue, yet has been attached to the “homosexual agenda”. On a side note I find it interesting that often God uses ungodly people to bring into view something that is unjust. Often as in the case of the gentiles, it is to shame the other into seeing that they are not walking in the way Christ Jesus has called us. (Romans 2:14)
So many churches call and claim to teach purity. Yet this often is not the purity Jesus has called us to. It is more in line with the “purity” of the Pharisees in which Jesus called, “White washed tombs that contain dead men’s bones”. It is often a purity based on shame and performance, both which hinder being able to serve God in true Love and godly purity.

Man’s heart is wicked and deceitful (Genesis 8:21). It is easy for man to be tripped up and try to make himself pure. This is impossible! Man cannot purify himself to make oneself acceptable for God, but must be purified by God. There are many verses that speak of God putting a pure heart in us. It is only by the blood of Jesus we are made pure and holy… and not of our own works or doing. People put out verses that speak of “keep yourself pure”, yet often over look that it is in letting Jesus live His life in and through you this is accomplished… in other words it is Christ Himself Who is our purity and Who keeps us and sustains our purity as we walk in the Spirit. This is a hard concept to understand let alone explain. Yet to walk in the Spirit is not some hyper spiritual walk “WE” do rather as in Romans 5:19 it is walking in what Christ Jesus has already done. It is by Grace and not of works, both by fulfilling some legality or in keeping the ceremonial requirements like circumcision to set oneself above someone else.

In Galatians 5, we are told from verse 13 on: You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (NIV)

I think we often confuse the list as what people need to be like to be like us, when instead we need to look at the list to see if we are walking in accord with the Spirit ourselves. I see so often that we use this as a list to judge, and justify our “fits of rage”, to spread “discord”, to cover our “selfish ambition” to cause “dissensions, and factions” out of our envy… all because we do not love our neighbor, but in fact one becomes “drunk” in their own “hate” toward our neighbor. These are the very things that make us impure… and as Paul states one who acts like this, will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Yet, like the Pharisees of Jesus day, we would rather justify ourselves than walk in Christ’s justification of us.

I see especially that sex is so often taboo in the church. That to talk about it is often condemned in shame and incites many to call those who seek to teach true purity in marriage and the joys of sex in marriage as immoral or perverted. Be mindful that scripture teaches: Titus 1 15. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

So a sign of unbelief is actually to call that which is pure, corrupt. And sex within marriage is pure.

I have a good friend whose testimony is very sad, yet at the same time, very powerful in that it shows the power of God to reunite a marriage. Dave and Kathy Foreman were torn apart by Dave’s homosexual lifestyle. He was addicted to drugs and pursuing his music career. Yet, the more he followed his desires the more he seem to lose as a person. I will not go much more into the story as you can read it here. Suffice it to say, God is in the business of reconciliation. Their story is sad and their struggles were many. God is good though. They now are doing a counseling ministry that is out to help marriages grow and to help those in the homosexual lifestyle find a way out. They also if I may plug iggyROCKS! my online Christian station, have a show called Life as One which is played nightly.

East Hill Church in Oregon, has started to speak out on sex openly at their church in hopes others will be encouraged to grow in their marriage. This is a great opening link to their website. I do not know much more about their ministry though the article as this is what inspired this posting.

I do recommend though with a bit of clarification xxxchurch.com I totally love what these guys are doing though use discretion in going to their site as it is very frank on the topic of sex. (A little update as to the power of Christ and how Jesus can reach out and change a person is the story of Crissy Moran. I had never heard of her, yet she has been in contact with xxxchurch.com as she has left the porn industry. You can send her some encouragement at her new site http://www.myspace.com/yourfriendcrissy I do not reccommend that someone just look her up, she is in the process of trying to get her many sites taken down. She needs tons of prayer as many depended on her for their own income... remember these are real people who became objects, and are now trying to be New Creations in Christ. You can read more about this awesome work of God on the xxxchurch.com blog.


Sex is and was meant to be a joyous thing in a marriage, and if one studies the Bible they will find that in the Song of Songs or Song of Solomon, which is very erotic, is a story of Christ and His bride. It is a story of how we should progress in our relationship with God…

Hebrews tells us that: Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. So we should emphasize the pure joy that sex in marriage can be.

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/17/2006 10:23:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

This just seemed appropiate to follow the last post.

1 Corinthians 13

1. If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10. but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

(I prefer "Charity" over the translation of love in the last verse as it hs in it "love" yet is in action. Many mouth this without realizing that it is about the change that is real in us when we come to Christ. This is why Jesus summed up the Law withthis statement "`Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. 39. And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matt 22:37-40)

Blessings,
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/16/2006 08:32:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

What to Do with the Gift of Tongues?

(I want to make this clear, that this is in no way a slam against he AoG as an entity. Many are wonderful churches with wonderful and loving people. Many often show more "grace" than those who claim Grace as their central doctrine. My issue was that I came to believe eternal security in which the AoG does not hold to or teach as they maintain one can "fall from grace and lose their salvation. I simply disagree. The passage that talks of "falling form grace" is in reference to returning to works or the sacrificial system and not about salvation.)

I shared a bit about my experience in the Assembly of God in which I was steeped in legalism. A performance based faith is one very deceptive as it deceives one into thinking they can be as perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect. In that I found in my life to be content in that I am not perfect, and God is. Once I realized this, and accepted it, I was free to be Who He wanted me to be in Christ Jesus… He is in no way finished with me by any means, yet who I was and who I am now are miles apart. I still have friends in the AoG. I love the people in it dearly.

This is a part of the story of the gift of tongues I received as a young man. This gift came easily as the gift should. My wife side of the story as she went forward was a bit more funny as they had her tilt her head back and encouraged her to “babble” then hit her on the forehead… with that she was supposed to be slain in the Spirit, yet, someone forgot to tell her that and she responded with an “ouch”. She tried for a while to see if she could receive the gift, yet became frustrated in it. Some teach that “all” must receive this gift and that it is the common gift… that has two meanings… First Common as the one most given by God, and second, in some cases it is taught that one must speak in tongues to be saved.

It is a bit like the Church of Christ stand on water baptism only that one must receive the “second blessing” to truly be saved. This is a lie plain and simple and truly if one reads scripture there is no “second blessing”. We receive Christ and are filled with the Holy Spirit and are saved. Though belief may come first… and the Holy Spirit may be held back until one has truly repented… as in the case of Simon the Sorcerer in the book of Act chapter 8. Simon “believed and was baptized” yet, as James 2:19 tells us, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.” So just believing in God is not enough to enter the Kingdom.

Simon held the want of power in his heart, and though he “believed and was baptized” had not received the Holy Spirit. It was not until Peter confronted the love of power over the love of Jesus, that Simon finally truly repented. Peter told Simon that bitterness had him still captive to sin. Simon was jealous of the power of God… and that Peter and the Apostles had this power and he did not.

God gives some gifts and to some others He chooses to not give them. This is not in any way saying God loves one less if they do not have some gifts and loves some more if they receive others.

For me, I have received a few of the gifts though I do not want to actually express some as I do not care to be misunderstood as bragging. For these gifts often can’t operate if one is full of pride. Suffice it to say in the Vineyard Churches John Wimber was said to express that “everyone gets to play”. Meaning that sometimes God pours out His presence and though you may not have a “gift” in some area, God will “gift” you for that moment. The other thing is we often get things a bit out of perspective. Allen our pastor at Billings Vineyard likes to mention that if someone is healed, who received the “gift of healing” the one who prayed for the person to be healed? Or is it the person who was healed? I think the gift was for the one healed.

We would gather together to speak in tongues and at times someone else would receive the gift. These corporate tongues sessions sometimes were powerful with visions and prophecies… words of knowledge… yet sometimes also pride would slip in and twist and cause us to be a bit overly judgmental. Here I will skip forward a bit as tongues were a bit important to me… yet in my heart there were some things a bit out of whack in the practice of this gift in the churches I attended.

After I found Grace, I was a bit out of place. It seemed I was on a more “Calvinist” bent. Though I did not really know much about Calvinism… I was for about a year studying Bible and listening to the teachings of Bob George and People to People ministries. In that I was finding more and more my freedom in Christ. Because most of the people I was spending time with did not speak in tongues (I do not think they were against them… but tongues was that big of a “thing” in comparison to God’s Grace.)

I had been asked to be the worship leader as the AoG church had gotten a new pastor. We sat down and I explained how God had changed me by His Grace and the pastor seemed to become offended and seemed to think I was saying that anyone who did not know Grace was “second class”… I was a bit taken back as he did not grasp that I was truly broken and humbled by God and saw that I was not deserving of mercy or Grace… yet as God humbled me and replace error for His Truth, I began to see things very different.

I expressed to this pastor that I thought that the gift of tongue is abused in many churches and that I had been attending this church for a few years and saw that we leaned that way. I pointed out in scripture as to how we should use the gift properly and again his response was a bit troubling…

“So, you don’t think we should be able to worship how we like?”… I asked him if it was better to worship in a way that if someone came in they would be able to learn about God… or if they walked in and saw us all speaking at once, and thought we were all crazy. He stood up from the table and shouted some agree words. I was in shock…

We attended a “Saddleback” style church that most people there had a Baptist background. At this time I was rediscovering tongues. I was at a bible study and the topic of tongue came around. They seemed to be very much against it. It seemed they saw tongues as sort of having passed. They went on a bit about people who speak in tongues are this and are that… I was a bit ashamed… yet I felt I had to say something.

“I speak in tongues”.

Everyone turned to me at the table. I told them a bit of my story… how I had received the gift… how TES was hit on the head and said, “ouch”. They laughed. I explained that I understood and agreed that this gift was often abused and misused. about how tongues was meant to edify the speaker… to express the inexpressible by letting the Spirit pray through you… it was like coming out of the closet.

Sorry, there was not big tongues revival that night, but they still accepted and loved me.

I still speak, mostly in times when I have no words, or am stressed. In those times I can sense God’s presence.

If you are one who see’s tongue as having passed, I have not problem with you. This is not why I am telling this story. I see that we are in a time when the “gifts” of God will begin to break forth again… and maybe with more understanding… such as with Allan’s observation of who really received the gift of healing.

I think many do have the gift, yet do not realize it. In Romans 8 we read: 19. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21. that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25. But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. 26. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

I think that we all have that inward groaning as we await the New Creation to come to its fullness. And in times when we have no words… in our weakness God, by His Spirit, intercedes on our behalf. It is a matter of trust that soon the hope of our salvation will come. (Hebrews 9:27-28)

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/16/2006 06:57:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Blessings!
iggy

Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/15/2006 05:37:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

More of My Story

Part of my "story" is that I was a very legalistic person for the first few years as Christian. I was a youth pastor and would teach how we were to try to keep ourselves pure to keep our holiness.

I came to a point when I realized that I was teaching one standard and living another... I would teach that God's standard was like a high bar and the higher the bar, the more we pleased God. I am not saying all AoG teach this. The one I had previously attended the pastor was one of the most humble and godly men I have ever know. We still keep in touch and he does not agree with me either...

Yet, in this church there was a lot that was not right... there was the "blab it and grab it bunch" who held the pastor in bondage with their tithes. We were sort of a striped and polka dotted, pink, red, black and blue sort of church. I was influenced and very heavy on the progressive sanctification teaching of John Wesley.

As I said I taught to aim high on the high bar, yet found myself doing all the "right" things, prayer (at least 1 hour more is better), 1 hour Bible reading (more is better, Praying in tongues as much as possible, keep a prayer journal and still not reaching the standard I set for others.

I found though that the one, who spoke in tongues the most, had a dirtiest mouth; the one who "blabbed it and grabbed it" was working her husband to death and was the biggest gossip. I am not saying these things are related, only that where sin was Grace did abound. Somehow these people seemed to think of themselves as "right with God" and when I slipped up I was not. So, one learned to hide their true self n fear of losing position.

I thought my last prayer to God would be, "You better show me what I am missing, cuz I can't live like this anymore. I don't want to be a schizophrenic Christian." That is when I heard this man on the radio preach Grace... and I hated him with a great passion. I can relate to Paul and his zealousness as I wanted to destroy this man and his ministry for lying! The more he taught the more I searched out the scriptures... I read his book and was not fully convinced... then I read through Hebrews. I was very careful to let the arguments build in context... rechecking the context over and over to see if the main verses that I used to teach one could fall away and lose salvation came from Hebrews 6 and 10.

When I finished I was astounded that these verses were actually about people like me, that I was not trusting in the fullness of Christ. I am not saying I was not saved, but I was not walking in the fullness of God' Grace.

This is the hardest part of the story for me to tell... But as I finished Hebrews, I heard God ask, "What is keeping you from accepting what you have just learned?"... I answered with out hesitation with one word... and it startled me... "Pride".

I was and still do struggle with pride. Yet I depend not on myself, but on God's Grace. I see that we are to imitate Jesus' relationship with the Father... Where many call the miracles of Jesus, should be saying the miracles of God, through Jesus. As in John 5: 19. Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

We are to be totally dependant on Jesus for all things. To let He who gave His life for us, give His Life to us, to Live His Life through us. We are a New Creation... behold all things have been made new.

As I walk in this way, I do not battle hatred or anger, unless I let the situation get the better of me, which does happen at times. Yet, the person I was is not the person I am now.

Now you know the rest of the story,

Blessings;
iggy

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Posted by iggy at 10/12/2006 11:17:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

We are having some discussion on wordofmouthdiscussions about Calvinism

I have read some amazing attempts to nullify "whosoever" (john 3:16)to mean something other than "anyone can be saved". I find it funny that one of the main tenants of TULIP is eternal security... yet If some are created to be saved and some to burn... by definition of Calvinism... how can we know if we are truly elect or not? How can we presume we are "elect"? In that vein, would not then this presumption be in fact a sin or some sort of delusion?

Now the kicker is I do believe in "eternal security", yet I arrived to that belief not through Calvinism. I came to believe in Eternal security through reading Hebrews, of all books. From that point of view which is very "Hebrew" in thought I read Paul and the other books in that context and came to the understanding of the elect are those who turn to God in 'faith' and are part of the Abrahamic covenant. I see that the NT is the fulfillment of the promises of Abraham... What Calvinism did was add to the thought that some are more special than others. Meaning that they rip the context from being around God knowing those who would come to faith and become like Christ... in which we are now to be blessed, to bless others. I also believe in "Free Will" as taught by those who were discipled by the Apostle John... such as Irenaeus. It comes down not about being elect, but in becoming a New Creation... as a New Creation, we may act at times like the Old Creation, but we will never be comfortable like that... we must press on and persevere to the end... as New Creations and in the end find salvation at the return of Christ at the Resurrection.


To make it that God predestined some in His foreknowledge, before creation to be saved and some to not be saved contradicts scripture when Peter tells us "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) For it is God's will that NONE SHOULD PERISH. I think the issue is that some are and will be outside of this will either by choice or by default...

I view Calvinism as "settling" for an easy way to explain a very complex God. In a way, and not meaning to be insulting as each person must work out their faith as best they can... at least to me it is not entering into a deeper walk with Christ. It seems to nullify the very workings of God, and set a substandard "finished works" of Christ Jesus Himself. Again, to me it is letting a system rule over ones relationship...instead of Christ Jesus ruling over all...


OK, now I offended some of you... I do still love you... and do not see that if one is a Calvinist that I would not fellowship with you. Mostly I see that happening the other way around. Yet, I hope that you who do hold to Calvinism realize that we both love Jesus... and that is the point we are to all fellowship...

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/09/2006 07:19:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

The Tao and Jesus Christ

Much of my readership is in the Asian continents so I hope that some of you will realize that we are to reach out to people where they are... as Paul did on Mars Hill.


In reading Heretic’s Guide to Eternity, Spencer Burke touches on The Tao. Actually this sort of surprised me as it seems Mr. Burke and I think quite a bit alike. Simply translated Tao means “the way”. In that The Tao is The Source of all and is the all in all… It is a concept that Tao is eternal and without beginning and without end. In a way it is much the same concept of The “Logos” in Christianity.

I had planned to write on this back in May, but at that time I had some people who seemed bent on showing I was a fraud, liar or worse… because I have a link to Brian McLaren… silly huh? I just decided that I did not want to have my words misrepresented more by these people.

Yet, it kept coming back to my mind and then I read it in Spencer Burke’s book. In that I think Spencer and I might have a very similar understanding of who Christ Jesus is and maybe why some have a hard time understanding where at least I am coming from.

In this I found that I am not alone. Here are a couple of other links to people who have been exploring the idea of Christ Jesus as The Tao.

The Tao of Faith A Reconsideration of Taoist Evangelicalismby Jack Crabtree

Taoism and Christianity Written by Michael Gleghorn

All about Taoism

C.S. Lewis even touched on The Tao in his writings called the Abolition of Man.

Here is another article by Christopher C. McClinch


There is one area that Tao and Christianity do depart… and that the Tao is unknowable. Jesus being the Tao incarnate, (which is not a concept in Taoism though could easily fit into it) has revealed the Tao (The Source/Creator of all Creation). In Christ the Unknown and Unknowable God is now ever being revealed.

Jack Crabtree covers the topic of being “walking n the Spirit” very well. I think as one explores how we are to be “in Christ” and how we are to “walk in Christ” that the realization that the One that Created all wants to some day be "all in all"… recapturing and redeeming the whole universe… not just mankind. God wants it to be “on earth as it is in Heaven” that begins in each of us individually… yet it must go outward and grow… that each thing we do is to bring us one step closer to “The New Heaven and New Earth”.

(In this I am in no way talking of the escapist doctrine of the Rapture… as I see that runs contrary to the very heart of the Gospel and especially Jesus’ own prayer in John 17:15. (For more info read here, and here). For some great article on this thought I recommend NT Wrights writings available here.)

As far as reaching those who believe in Taoism, I think much of the hardest footwork is already done, now all we really have to do is be like Paul and introduce Taoists to Jesus… Who is the Tao Incarnate.

(This is a evangalistic piece to reach out to those who are in the Asain cultures that read my blog. I am not endorsing Taoism, but showing as Paul did on Mars Hill that this unknown and unknowable Force/God/ Creator of all things known as Tao has a Name... the Name above all Names, Jesus. It is my prayer that one will seek to learn and find more out about Jesus through all things were created.)

Blessings,
iggy


part 2
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Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/07/2006 05:35:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

Billings Vineyard Church

I am really excited that Vineyard Billings is growing! Recently we have gotten our website set up… feel free to take a look. Say hi, and tell ‘em “iggy sent you”.

If you are in Billings, or even in Montana and just visiting come and visit.

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/06/2006 08:24:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

What do I mean by Emerging Thought?


I am often asked to define or summarize or to try to explain what the Emerging Church is… I do prefer Emerging Thought, though I do think I am most likely the only one who uses it. To me the idea of Emerging Thought is more focused on the “information” (ideas/ imagination / inspiration/internalized perspiration or whatever one wants to call it), and not the brand of media that the information is carried on. We can easily get sidetracked with “is it” Emergent or emerging, is it emerging church or postmodern… can one be a postmodern thinker and a Christian? All this seems ore focused on being a marketable brand. This is not a criticism just a personal perspective to the many options we can call ourselves. Again, I use emerging thought to cut through all of this… and get to the point.

We are about ideas, some inspired some not… all ideas contain information. So we use words, through talking, writing, music and any other form of communication to transport those ideas or thought s to others. That is called the conversation in “Emerging” circles.

In that most of the thoughts and conversations revolve around our faith. As part of our faith in Christ Jesus, we are called to reach this world with the Gospel. As the scripture teaches, “faith comes by hearing”… so we express our faith in the form of communications…. I like to point out that the root of communication is communion. Communion is besides another word for the Eucharist, simply in the common use,” association; fellowship” or an “interchange or sharing of thoughts or emotions; intimate communication: communion with nature.” That is why communication is so important to “emerging” folk.


Acording to dictionary .com, communication has a about 7 meanings. Most is not all are around the transference of information. I noticed at least two that relate to what I am trying to express here.

“the imparting or interchange of thoughts, opinions, or information by speech, writing, or signs.”

The one I most related to though interestingly is under biology… I think it is the most relevant to what is going on in the “emerging circles”… I see it as we are part of the body of Christ, the church, a living organism.

“activity by one organism that changes or has the potential to change the behavior of other organisms.”

Notably we are not out to just change behavior, rather, we are changed to a “new creation” or as the scripture teaches, that out of the two natures, God has made us “new” with one nature… and one family… where the “walls of division” which literally was between Jew and Gentile has come down. What I am trying to say is that as we interact with each other in Christ and communicate through conversation our faith, we are changed first through our relationship with Christ, then in our relationship with each other. In doing this, we hear the voice of God and respond to Him in our relationship with others.

This is one of the expression of our faith… this is how we share in a relevant way to others. It is not about “us and them” or “sacred and secular”, but the reconciliation of us them with us, and the redemption of the secular to the sacred.

Our faith is not built upon division, though many strive for and in that, it is built upon the thought of reconciliation. Of man being redeemed by God, though he is unworthy of redemption, and of man being reconciled together as one in Christ.

I see in the “emerging” people the potential to move beyond denominational barriers. I already see that many evangelicals are now showing interest in N.T. Wright, Bishop of Durham who is an Anglican… something I don’t think would have ever seen happened. Most of my life I was told how far off track those Episcopalians or Anglicans were. I know from personal experience that though many seem content with tearing down or attacking others as they only can see the point they disagree with… and then deem the other unworthy of fellowship. I hope that we can grow beyond that and look for the common ground in our faith in Christ.

Now, I will always speak out against the “religionist”, who add to the works of Christ by adding their own rules and doctrines. I see these men as not of those who are out to edify, but rather wolves that are out to destroy the flock. I love them as we are commanded to… to love our enemies, but I will rebuke and stand against them to correct them in their rebellion against the “ministry of reconciliation”. I will not only speak out against them, but I will pray FOR them in that they come to maturity in their faith.

Emerging is many things to many people. As I attempt to express what it is to me, I will emphasize that this is what it means to me… This is what I am getting from being a part of “emerging thought”.

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: Answers to my Critics, emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/06/2006 08:15:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

My response to Bob Hyatt concerning Heretics Guide to Eternity

Bob Hyatt has been reviewing the book Heretics Guide to Eternity as well as myself… yet it seems we are seeing it a bit differently.

Bob,
I hate to say this, but I seem to agree with Spencer on many things more than what you just wrote... I think often pastors mistake "love" with control... or often lose sight that it is the Holy Spirit in control and not themselves.

I have had a few disagreements with the book, yet, I think I would have hours of conversation with Spencer... There are times as I read the book I think he is reading my mind...

Though I have not finished it... but I keep looking for the outlandish that some have said is there...

To me, I see Spencer as showing Jesus is the door... that we need to go through Him... in that we then lose the institutionalization of church and life in the Life of Christ.

Believe me... there is more to church than we have even begun to know... and most of what we know as church is not...

Really I do not grasp what you are getting at in this statement:

"This is a broken world and we are broken people. The good news, though, is that God Himself has come to rescue and renew all of creation through the work of Jesus Christ on our behalf.
But telling people that they experience the saving grace of God irrespective of personal faith and trust in God's Savior, in God's provision for forgiveness is a cruel and terrible thing to do."

Doesn't the Bible say that while we were still enemies of God, Jesus died for us? So Grace is ever and always there... for where sin is Grace abounds even more? Grace is not just in the moment of receiving Christ, but in the fact that the God who spoke all things into existence can unspeak all things into non existence... to acknowledge that He is long suffering and merciful...

As far a being literal... I think we need to realize most the time we claim we take the bible literal and really we don't. Be careful to not cast stones... Do you still have two eyes and both hands? Yet, have you looked at a woman lustfully? We tend to pick and choose what we think we want literal and what we do not. I can say that I have both eyes and both hands... I can write it off as a metaphor, or whatever, yet, Jesus said it... and I think he meant it literally... but I think he had another solution... and that was the Cross.

I think the passage was meant a bit tongue in cheek that "no one actually recorded Jesus' words at the time he spoke them, so we have no proof that they are indeed his words, and what he did say, he said in Aramaic, which means that nothing in the Bible as translated into any other language can be taken literally anyway..." Have you ever noticed that the same stories in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, often have the same wordings yet not always the same exact quotes? So which one is right? Which of the Gospels is wrong in what they say Jesus actually said?

Are you going to tell me that “The Message” is a literal quote word for word of Jesus actual words? Personally there is much passing for “True Christianity” that is neither true, nor Christian…

Mostly, I think that maybe you put back that can of Driscoll and maybe approach our brother with a bit more Grace…

Blessings,
iggy

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Labels: books, emerging church, Reviews

Posted by iggy at 10/05/2006 04:38:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

The Gospel, Theology and Doctrine…


The Gospel:

Jesus has risen and is alive

Theology:

Man’s attempt to explain the Gospel.

Doctrine:

Man’s attempt to explain theology.


I had this thought this morning as I was in the shower and it gave me a bit of a laugh… I think it contrasts how simple The Gospel is… and then what we mere men then do with it. Simply according to the scripture, the Good News or Gospel was that Jesus had Risen and is alive… and He was the Lord… This had many political nuances in which the main one is that Tiberius Caesar may be emperor… but Jesus is Lord! You see in the days of Caesar as one Roman emperor would die, the announcement or proclamation that new emperor was now in power. They would proclaim, “Tiberius is Lord; get down on your knees!” So for the followers of Jesus to proclaim, “Jesus is Lord”, was a slap in the face to the Roman Empire. It was a challenge… I hope that enriches ones understanding of when the scripture tells us, “Every knee will bow and every voice proclaim, Jesus Christ is Lord” really meant.

Man has ever since tried to explain what the Gospel is… They add doctrines and create new theologies and really add to the noise that already was silenced at the Cross of Jesus. We need to accept that fact that the Gospel is simply, “This Man Jesus was crucified, and now lives!” On that we should carefully build on as our foundation, letting He who all creation was created through, be are chief builder. If there is to be doctrine it must flow like the living water from the throne… and not from our vain philosophies we have created. We need to read Paul and Jesus and listen from the point of view that their contemporaries did… to better understand what they really said. So much of theology “sounds good enough to pass” but really just tickles itching ears.

So as you live you life, which as a Follower of Christ should be as He lives His life through you, what requirements are you placing on those who need to know of Jesus… what doctrine is more powerful than Jesus? Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, and gave us the New Covenant… why do so many of us think we must keep people in bondage to the OT and then think we can live ourselves in the NT? That is really hypocritical.

We are to live in Love… in the knowledge of the Grace and Truth that is from Jesus. We must never add to or take away from Jesus has risen… It has enough richness and meaning in itself without our finite and often ill thought out and conceived man made ideas. Jesus is either enough to save… or He is not… and that is our choice.

Blessings,
iggy

Labels: emerging church, in Christ

Posted by iggy at 10/05/2006 12:38:00 PM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post

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Labels: emerging church

Posted by iggy at 10/01/2006 03:18:00 AM | Permalink | Comments | links to this post