Wednesday, November 14, 2007

I'm not your critic, don't even know you.

I received this in the comments on my post My last words to my HYPER CRITICS . Originally I posted a comment back but then decided not to... but I have decided to let you the reader read this and post your comments to this person.

Be blessed,
iggy


I'm not your critic, don't even know you. If your involved in the Vineyard movement, I'll just consider that you have not come to your right mind.



My question has to do with your introductory comment:

"I find it rather strange how some will demand perfect doctrine from others…"

How do you square that with:

I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another...and

...As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace: 11 whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God...and

...knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation...and

... Do not add to his words,
lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar...and

...I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book....

Though no one can demand you must believe perfect doctrine and hold it, the Scripture does. It does it in this way. That which is opinion is not truth. Only that which can be established as true is to be taught. That is what Paul and Peter, Solomon and Jesus were saying: Do not go beyond what is written. Simply, and profound. The rule is this, if you do not know it to be the truth and the only truth, keep your mouth shut, or as Proverbs would say: Even a fool is counted wise when he remains silent, or a fool does not wait to hear the end of a matter before speaking. There are sound words to learn and if there are not, then we have no Bible, even a poorly translated one to refer to.

I will leave you with this:
Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain...So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter...I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them...charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine...If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed...Command and teach these things. Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress. Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers...

The fact is iggy, the Word of God, that is Jesus Himself (ref Revelation) commands us to hold perfect doctrine. It is a simple thing, as I said. Stay within the bounds of what you know. To do more or less is to condemn yourself: “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

To put it in the language of the emergent, get your pompous head out of your posterior cavity and come into the light...

Sorry for the crudeness, but these are straight forward statements of Scripture all agreeing with one another, simple enough that even a child can understand them. I have simple words for my children: The world is not pink, your head is not your butt, and don't piss on a flat rock. Crude but effective with children and all Biblical, in a weird sort of way. I would not preach it that way except to my kids. They understand it though.

One last thing: What do you have that you did not receive?

Posted by lordodamanor 11/14/2007 12:06:00 AM

6 comments:

lordodamanor said...

Wow! You know iggy, not once did you interact with the Scripture. Do you, or do you not acknowledge that it is proper to demand perfect doctrine in light of the clear Biblical commandments to do so?

iggy said...

lordofmanor,

You are casting accusations all over, yet have not proven I am guilty of any of them...

You miss a very subtle thing...

There is a difference between man made doctrine and sound doctrine.

You seemed to thrown out of the equation Grace also.

Funny thing is you affirm what state in that sentence here:

"Though no one can demand you must believe perfect doctrine and hold it, the Scripture does."

So before I answer all the mishmash of actually unasked questions that are really there concerning you argument against modern day prophecy... tell me how I contradict myself by the original statement you quote and in your statement that restates what I stated? LOL!

Perfect doctrine comes from Jesus... otherwise you are following the Law and doing all things by faith in your own righteousness... read Galatians and Romans and so on for you biblical reference on that.

I mean right off the bat you state:

"I'm not your critic, don't even know you."

Then in a very unkind tone negate that with the contradictory..

"If your involved in the Vineyard movement, I'll just consider that you have not come to your right mind."

So off the bat I can only say I think that you and I are of very different theological worlds... and though most people I converse with seem to have no issue with me and MY theology on a personal level you set a nasty tone that makes me not really want have anything to do with you.

Again, please read a bit of what I teach before you demand anything of me. It would only be wise to see the bigger picture than to jump to quick assumptions.

Again as far as your "question"... I do not see a question other than how do I square men demanding other men to be perfect as God in their doctrine (which is what is meant in my statement. so to simply ask to clarify that would have been much easier than to start with an argument) and passages about adding things to God's word. I guess then you think adding things to God's word is what we are to do?

I do not teach that or practice that... so again, i am not even sure what you are even saying let alone really asking.

All in all you sound rather confused and sorry to state it this bluntly... double minded as you contradict yourself throughout this "question".

iggy

Bruce said...

Iggy,

Wow, I am trying to picture that whole Emergent, Posterior thing.

The Christian world is filled with lordodamanor's. People who believe they have found perfect truth and who demand such allegiance, in God's name from others. They give no place or thought that they might be wrong or that they are simply full of _______.

The Bible does teach perfect doctrine. No one disputes that. But, just because the Bible teaches perfect doctrine doesn't mean that what I believe is perfect doctrine. We are fallen men with fallible minds, prone to error and mistake.

When seeking the truth of Scripture it is best to be humble and ever aware that you might be wrong.

So much of what passes today as they unadulterated perfect truth of God is nothing more than man's spin on it.

Lordodamanor proves again that the number one problem in Christianity is fundamentalism. Many shapes, sizes and forms of it but it is all the same. Arrogant filled thinking that suggests that "I have the truth"

Bruce

iggy said...

Bruce,

I am not even really sure what his question is not to mention his beef with me is about.

I see though that he seems to think his own righteousness is equal to Jesus and that he can be as perfect as our Father in heaven is... LOL!

even his name is a dead give away.

I am not really bothered by him though, he exposed what he is about and that he has no clue about God's grace.

All I can really get is he seems to think I add to God's word somehow... but as I read his comment it seems that he adds works to grace and misses the very doctrines he says he holds perfectly...

He only proved he has not even read my blog at all, if he thinks I add to God's word somehow.

Now if it because he is a cessasionist and I am in Vineyard and believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I can't help him there except point out he adds to the word of God by stating that the gifts have stopped... when the bible does not say they did anywhere.

If his beef is with the Kansas City Prophets... good for him! I have a beef with them also! So we agree...

So, he is free to comment... here.. on this post... and if he comments elsewhere I will post it here and state the link he posted on... unless his tone changes drastically. But i will not let him post his hate other than here so that all can read and see his heart exposed.

iggy

Free Believers in Arizona said...

iggy:

I hope you don't let those unkind words get to you.

I don't agree with that hatred.

It was obviously meant to discourage you.

Without love it's all a clanging cymbal to me.

Your new friend!
Josh

iggy said...

I want to thank you for your kind words... not just here but from all the comments at mychurch.com. Here is a repost ofmy comment there.

"I'm not your critic, don't even know you. If your involved in the Vineyard movement, I'll just consider that you have not come to your right mind."

This was hysterical when I read it... and it seems to be the thread through out the whole thing... I am not your critic... but I am criticizing you...


Then he quotes me...

"I find it rather strange how some will demand perfect doctrine from others?"

Then throws out scripture to make some convoluted point... about what i am not sure...

then restates what I stated... in his own words, but misses he agrees with my statement... LOL!

"Though no one can demand you must believe perfect doctrine and hold it, the Scripture does."

ummm, that is why I stated, "I find it rather strange how some will demand perfect doctrine from others?"

Now, I agree that the bible (in places) demands us to be perfect as God is... but that is in the context of we cannot do that... and later we find only Jesus can and did and we are to rest totally on that!

He addresses many things that are true, but misses that I also teach these also... but there is a huge difference between him and me... He seems to think he can do this with God's help and misses the point of the "good fruit/bad fruit" teaching... he also is bad fruit... God is and has the only good fruit and we bear it only because Jesus does... in and through us. It is all God's fruit and none of our own. Somehow he thinks that his fruit is now good... and misses the Jesus stated that "only God is good" and the standard is "be perfect as God is perfect".

Now, in Christ, we are perfected in Love and by Grace. Jesus is perfect and has met all the righteous requirements and we being in Him also have through Him fulfilled these requirements... and since we died with Jesus on the Cross... the law has no power over us anymore... but we now live by the "higher law" of love.

It is sad that he never has taken the time to really look at what I teach and believe... and has quickly judged me by his own standard and seems more happy with being divisive than really looking at a person.

And I will add this.

He says I have not interacted with scripture... but misses that out of the 700+ posts on this blog deal with and interact with scripture.

Be blessed,
iggy