Saturday, December 09, 2006

Who are they talking about?

Who are they talking about?

I will be getting back the series, yet I think that there is some items in the “air” that need addressing.

John MacArthur has written another book… no problem, except it is about the “emerging church” and like most of the criticism that have come our way we ask, “Who are they talking about?” Dan Kimball wrote an open letter in response to John’s letter about the book which in that letter mentions Dan Kimball. (I am not giving the address or title of the John’s book. Why should I?)

Now John has a bit of a history setting up straw men to knock down, and even my own Vineyard Denomination had done a position paper on one of his books full of unfounded accusations.

Grace to You is John’s radio show and honestly I listened for a time… religiously, yet in that time found him often saying things about the Charismatic movement that though there were many “like” that, most I knew were not. It became apparent that it was “Grace to You” only if you agreed with John…

Really this is another example of why we need to not engage. In fact, if we listen to these types of critics and don’t recognize ourselves, then it must not be us… even if they mention our own name!

Don’t get pulled into vain arguments with those who only care to be “right” as they are only pushing a religion of the intellect and reasoning, based on the false belief that Jesus “proposed” truth: (which is the root word where we get propositional from). Jesus did not propose another way, truth or life, HE PROCALIMED IT OF HIMSELF!

Jesus taught with authority and proclaimed truth. He did not lay out any propositions like someone who is out to solicit sex from a hussy! He proclaimed truth to all from the authority of Who He is. Even when Jesus may have used propositional truth Jesus used it against those who approached Him in that unholy manner! To say that Jesus was teaching propositionally implies Jesus was trying to convince everyone that He was Who He claimed to be… in fact I read quite the opposite. Parables were what Jesus used the most... to comfound the conventional "wisdom" that was thought so highly of.

So again, these men do not care about us. They know not love for they do not know He Who loves and is Love. Personally the last time I engaged one of my personal slanderers it left a bad taste in my mouth… I felt like a dog returning to his vomit… and I left saddened as this person believes in another gospel that denies a relationship with Jesus… which only proved what I suspected from the beginning… one cannot know the Father except by knowing Jesus… and if you hate your brother the Truth/Jesus is not in you… they hate their brothers and even go as far as saying we are not brothers… so again, why listen to someone who the bible is clear as to what they are about? No one wins an argument!

I propose that if one comes to your blog and tries to provoke you, simply pray a prayer of blessing on them and thank them for their concern for the lost that we share with them... You can usually tell these people in how they approach you on your blog, it is like you can smell them... and it is not the aroma of Christ! In fact these are the divisive ones that scritpure tells us to avoid! (2 Tim 2:23-26 Titus 3: 9) So unlike these people lets do what the scripture teaches and avoid them... and if they are our self proclaimed enemies, then bless them as Jesus taught. (Matt 5:44)

They condemned us, yet in that , show that they need Jesus even more than ever.
These men are not worthy of our time, energy or thoughts as they only keep us from Kingdom building. Again, I cry out to all in the emerging church to kick the dust off your sandals and face the work at hand… the harvest is now… let’s go forth and build on the foundation of Christ and let those who are building on hay and stubble have their season, and God will judge all in good time.

Be faithful builders!


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Chase said...

Scream it!

I don't know if you read my post "Whats Wrong With The Emergent Church?" but would you be willing to help me out on building a table for the EC to come to and start hashing out what we believe. I think have the criticisms I have and others have is that the EC is just a conversation. Lets have our constitutional congress! Will you help me?

Anonymous said...


Sorry to hear that. It's unfortunate that anything new gets blasted by the establishment, either out of fear or the unknown. Don't forget what Jesus went through with the's hard when you mess with the "system." I think the church, like our culture, is morphing despite what anyone says...good, bad or ugly the church has to change. Thanks for your comments.

iggy said...


thanks again for your comments. This will take a lot of work... if you want contact me privately and we can discuss a game plan.

There are thosw who do have some real critics. Yet, I am not going to waste time on thoses who make things up to make themselves look good or to just sell books. In fact isn't that one of the critisims of the EC? Ironic that the accusers seem to know so much as they are more guilty of it... The Pharisees where know to go many mile and to grea extent to make one convert... in responce to that, Jesus said, the are only "making them twice a fit for hell"...

There are some real good things happening... and some real bad. The thing is that most these critics are just out to make a name for themselves. One thinks he is like "Dr. Walter Martin" who I read and listened to greatly as a young man... Hank at CRI has never been able to fill his shoes... yet, Walter earned his "position" by hitting the streets... he engaged and had real conversations sith people and the big thing is he loved people. I just don't see it in this one critic.
I am calle da fraud becuase of who I was ordained through, yet "Dr. Walter Martin" was never a "Dr." he never earned a PHD in anything! Later in his life he received an "Honorary certificate" that called him a "Dr."... ab ti hypocritical to uplift Walter and say how great he was... and then condemn another becuase he is not ordained in the same denomination as you...

These people feed off each others egos... and are nothing more than school yard bullies who will meet face to face with The Judge and will have to explain to Him why they are so great as to usurp Jesus as judge.My fear for these men is that they will stand and present all they did FOR God and He says, "I never knew you." Especially as I have read some of these men and they deny that one must have a relationship with Jesus t be saved... I keep asking then how can you be saved... they keep saying "propositional truth"... so it is another gospel... plain and simple.

I am not angry with them... I am saddened and only pray they find the Grace of God and learn to walk in the Spirit Who is Life.

I am angry I have wasted time in reaching out to my attackers... when i could be Kingdom building... There are those who need Jesus... and by attacking one's brothers in Christ, these who need Jesus and will respond are are not being reached... these men do not care... otherwise that would be there main focus... not me, the emerging peoples... They would put their money where their mouth is.

I just decided that a house divided cannot stand, so i will not partake in their divisivness.


leviathen said...

right on bro. you rock.