The issue of Lordship Salvation.

The issue of Lordship Salvation.

(Update: In regards to Steve's comment I did a bit more poking around about JM's view on this issue. I am not intending to misrepresent his view, rather voice a concern where one can take the idea that one must "become a disciple" in order to be saved and make it about works. I do not think one has to have a full understanding of the Gospel to be saved. In one place John does acknowledge this also. I fully understand John's concern over "cheap grace" yet; I think still that those who are Called will grow as God grows them... and in that they will become disciples. I do think he is not too far off the mark, yet it seems there is a need to clarify this position. Mostly in his recent critique of the emerging conversation John seems to accuse the EC of “cheap grace” and to my knowledge this is not so... in fact I see the opposite as many are moved by God's grace and mercy to go and do the ministry and vocation that Jesus has passed on to us to do. I have read that John may have a different definition of Grace than some do; I have not found that to be true though I am looking deeper. I have found he has a broader definition of Grace meaning that it is fleshed out more than “unmerited favor” and in that I fully agree.)

It does not allow for salvation to be a process in a (pre Christian's) person’s life.

I was thinking about that. John MacArthur wants someone to fully understand Who Jesus is before they believe in Him… That is a bit absurd as it then assumes that that we must know God and that saves us, but the Bible teachs that God knows us and in that we are saved! (Gal 4:9) John flips the Biblical understanding of salvation on its head. It seems to assume from the start that man is the initiator instead of the responder of God’s Grace. John asserts that one must do works to show they are saved… so he has added works to salvation. Though works are a result of our salvation it seems that John places equal for salvation, man’s works and God’s Grace… which without realizing it nullifies God’s Grace. Though John is trying to design a way for God’s process to flow… I personally think God already does a great job without John’s help!

Really this explains a lot as far as the perspective of John MacArthur. He seems to be in fear of God being in control and in a way has created a system to control God to assure one’s own salvation outside of or beside Grace alone. John seems to be well outside the great reformers.

In John’s world works assure salvation. In the Bible works are an outflow of Christ in us fulfilling His great will and purpose. (Philippians 2: 12- 13)

Let’s look at that verse a bit.

“Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.”


First this verse is about believers… who have obey the words of Christ… and what were those words? John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

The one thing that we are to do as believers is to believe in Jesus as the One God sent! In that come the whole package of High Priest/King/Brother/Friend… the whole kit and caboodle! One cannot accept Jesus the Person without accepting all He is… though one may not know all that He is… I am a husband/father/blogger, yet if you decided to be my friend and did not know one of these things about me you would still be my friend… nor will I reject you as my friend if you did not know I was a father…and that is where one must be in relationship with Jesus to get to know Jesus… and in getting to know Jesus one begins to know the Father Who sent Him… Just as you would take time and by a process get to know me as a friend, Jesus desires that of us!

Now back to the verse a bit more. Once one obeys the words of Christ… to believe He is the One sent, one must realize it is not that we are one person at church or with our “churchy” friends and a different person away from them… we come to realize that Christ is in us always… He is not more present at a church building… though I may argue a bit about Jesus being more present in a corporal setting as we fellowship and worship with other believers… yet the fact remains, we are in Christ and He in us alone or with others.

Salvation is something we are working through… it is a troubling and fearful process… as one realizes not that one may lose salvation if one is lacking in the “disciplines” rather fearful that it is not we who are doing the works that come out of our salvation process… rather it is God working in us. In that we should tremble as the God of all creation chooses to use us to love others into the Kingdom of God! It is God Who is giving us the will to do His works and the power to DO those works. To think one has a hand even in God’s works loses sight of what God is truly doing… we are partakers of the Divine mission… but we are not the initiators of that mission… otherwise it is our works and not Gods. Then the process breaks down and Jesus is not doing the works… and worse, Jesus is then not Lord… of your life or that situation. (Jesus still is, but it then moves to the area of “discipline” and that is not of punishment rather it is of training the true believer to readjust their will and purpose to God’s calling on their life.)

1 Cor 6: 19 – 20 tells us: “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”

So many think it is that “we” do the works of Christ… and that is pure rubbish and a twisting of scripture to a man based faith. But yet it is taught throughout the churches. We are not our own… God owns us… whether we bent a knee or not… but it is the Christian that has come to realize this as their very Life. The Holy Spirit dwells in us as He did in the Tabernacle and the Temple of the Old Testament. And like that we walk in hole reverence of the fact we are set apart… on a personal level just like the Abraham was and the Hebrews were and Israel still is… for in fact we are the New Israel redeemed with our future secure, and borrowing as it were from that future glory to shine it’s very Light here now in this darkened world.

WE often forget that God has been at work all these 2000 years… even in the dark ages man has been having an encounter with the Living Risen Christ. Often we tend to brush of points of history and deny that. God was just as much at work in the people pre Martin Luther as He was after Martin Luther. God saved those people the same way as He does today… by Grace through faith… even if they did not fully grasp that! For to say otherwise denies Grace!

God is in the saving business and as history goes on, we are still building on the foundation that was laid and that being Christ Jesus Himself. We must remember that the future of salvations conclusion is rushing at us in the now… and even in the past this was still the case. N.T. Wright states it like two trains one moving toward the New Creation and one move from the New Creation to the present and in where they meet we have communion with God. This was in reference to the Eucharist, yet I see it fits also the case that many miss the point we are New Creators in Christ now doing HIS WORKS of salvation in and through us… In other words, works are not of us… anymore than Grace can be mustered out of sheer will power to save us.

John’s version misses that point and then builds something more horrific over that foundation… a gospel of works salvation based on human reasoning. John places man’s understanding as the way of salvation… this cuts across the very vein of scriptures teaching as Peter was told by Jesus that it was revealed to Peter by the Father that Jesus was the Messiah… (Matt 16: 16) for in the very next verse Jesus shows how salvation comes… not by human reasoning, or by even scripture… as I am sure Peter read the OT many times, for Jesus teaches this in verse 17:

“Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.”

Who Jesus is revealed by the Father!

This is faith in action. Right there… with Peter “seeing” Jesus because the Father in Heaven revealed it to Peter. Peter in his heart… received the Seed of Christ at that moment and saw Who Jesus was. Yet, in the next few verses we see that Peter did not know what Jesus was going t have to do. In fact Peter tries to talk Jesus out of it!

It is a process… Peter was loved and was on the road to salvation even without knowing all there was to know about Jesus and all the mission Jesus had to do and held in store for Peter and the other disciples to do.

Lordship Salvation is a bit silly to me as in the end ALL WILL BEND A KNEE and confess JESUS CHRIST IS LORD! Yet, not all of those will go into the Kingdom… in fact many of those will be cast into the Lake of Fire. (Rom 14:11)

So build on the foundation of Jesus… and that be by letting Him be the Master Builder, let Jesus be the Author and Finisher of your faith! (Hebrews 12:2) To think you can finish by doing the works of Jesus yourself is only deceiving yourself. Especially if you think work are the way to prove you are saved… The proof is in Who knows you and Who is doing those great and wonderful works… John seems to think that God's way is not good enough and that in some twisted version of "faith", "grace" and "works", we can "help" God! I will stay to what the Bible teaches...

Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen

Blessings,
iggy

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