Blogging has been one of those milestone events in my life...boy that sounds sad in a way.What I mean is it has opened up the world in a new way. I have made friends, maybe a few enemies (not that I know any) and have had some of the most interesting discussions I have had in years.
The most current ones:
Homosexuality: with the token Catholic...Hugo
Baptism: with JP a member of the Church of Christ
Postmodernism: more discussion with JP
Discussion with Kristen...(man she is one sharp cookie) Should women wear a head covering read her blog Heads and Hair
These are all good reads...no, not just because I am in the conversation...
Here is the most touching one...from my neice in California. A poem to the newest edition of Sheltons to be born in July we call Baby Girl, (until we have a name): Chrissy
Blessed,
iggy
Friday, March 18, 2005
Wednesday, March 09, 2005
It's a Girl!
A little girl... or as the ultrasound tech said...we have a "hamburger" and not a "turtle"...(just think a little bit about it).
We are excited... we admit we were thinking "boy" yet we never thought "not a girl" if you know what I mean.
Now, we are in a serious search for a girls name. May is a family name as my grandmother and mother had it as a middle name. I guess that is a given.
Seda
Calica
Rainy
Carly
I will be adding some more as we go.
Blessings,
iggy
(you can read more about this adventure on BabySheltonupdate (the sequel)
We are excited... we admit we were thinking "boy" yet we never thought "not a girl" if you know what I mean.
Now, we are in a serious search for a girls name. May is a family name as my grandmother and mother had it as a middle name. I guess that is a given.
Seda
Calica
Rainy
Carly
I will be adding some more as we go.
Blessings,
iggy
(you can read more about this adventure on BabySheltonupdate (the sequel)
Tuesday, March 08, 2005
Head leaves KORN for Christ!
Head Leaves Korn For Christ!
Wow!
Sometimes news hits you with ton of bricks...
Now I was not a big Korn fan...but I must say besides soundgarden the downtuned sound was taken to an all new level with Korn. I remember listening to them for the first time...though I can't remember the song's name the topic was the singers molestation as a child...you could hear real pain as he screamed as in a primal scream therapy...I remember they did not play that song live as it had such an effect on him.
Now Brian "Head" Welch one of the guitarists has professed Christ and was baptized in the Jordan river... he also has quit the group.
Now, will this be the Bob Dylan of this generation? Will the Church burn him out like they did Dylan? I pray not. All in all though...God is good!
blessings,
iggy
Story here
Wow!
Sometimes news hits you with ton of bricks...
Now I was not a big Korn fan...but I must say besides soundgarden the downtuned sound was taken to an all new level with Korn. I remember listening to them for the first time...though I can't remember the song's name the topic was the singers molestation as a child...you could hear real pain as he screamed as in a primal scream therapy...I remember they did not play that song live as it had such an effect on him.
Now Brian "Head" Welch one of the guitarists has professed Christ and was baptized in the Jordan river... he also has quit the group.
Now, will this be the Bob Dylan of this generation? Will the Church burn him out like they did Dylan? I pray not. All in all though...God is good!
blessings,
iggy
Story here
Monday, February 14, 2005
A minister's lament
A MINISTER'S LAMENT
I used to call in people's homes, to talk with them and pray but now I've no time left to call; I have to be away Attending meetings here and there, as loyal preachers must;How else can one keep up to date, when programs are discussed?
The phone bell rang the other day. A tearful voice said, "Please, could you find time to see my dad? He's sick and ill at ease."I could not call that afternoon. I had a conference on,where specialists in pastoral work discussed things pro and con.
The next day proved too late to call. The poor old man was dead. His folks were peeved and sent for Reverend Doctor Brown instead;(Though why they'd turn to him in need I cannot comprehend;No conference on pastoral work he ever did attend.)
My youth work here has all but died, though Doctor Brown's is fair;For while I run to institutes, my young folks worship there.You'd think my church would boom and grow; but strange to say 'tis not;For while I go to conferences, my church work goes to pot.
They stress evangelistic work, which every church should do;They plan a lot of institutes to take our deacons to. These "New Life" conferences tell us how lost souls from sin to pry; They only trouble is that now we've no time left to try.
Perhaps we've made a big mistake, as some profess to see. Perhaps most church work has become a vast bureaucracy. Perhaps our time would best be spent among the needy mob. Perhaps God's kingdom profits most by staying on the job.
Author unknown
Be blessed,
iggy
I used to call in people's homes, to talk with them and pray but now I've no time left to call; I have to be away Attending meetings here and there, as loyal preachers must;How else can one keep up to date, when programs are discussed?
The phone bell rang the other day. A tearful voice said, "Please, could you find time to see my dad? He's sick and ill at ease."I could not call that afternoon. I had a conference on,where specialists in pastoral work discussed things pro and con.
The next day proved too late to call. The poor old man was dead. His folks were peeved and sent for Reverend Doctor Brown instead;(Though why they'd turn to him in need I cannot comprehend;No conference on pastoral work he ever did attend.)
My youth work here has all but died, though Doctor Brown's is fair;For while I run to institutes, my young folks worship there.You'd think my church would boom and grow; but strange to say 'tis not;For while I go to conferences, my church work goes to pot.
They stress evangelistic work, which every church should do;They plan a lot of institutes to take our deacons to. These "New Life" conferences tell us how lost souls from sin to pry; They only trouble is that now we've no time left to try.
Perhaps we've made a big mistake, as some profess to see. Perhaps most church work has become a vast bureaucracy. Perhaps our time would best be spent among the needy mob. Perhaps God's kingdom profits most by staying on the job.
Author unknown
Be blessed,
iggy
Sunday, February 13, 2005
Faith like a river
If faith is like the dead sea; it is dead because all things flow to it yet is refuses to give of itself so others may live. I want a river of living water as my faith, flowing, causing turbulence when needed, peacefully flowing at times...I want to live..... abundantly.
Blessings,
iggy
Saturday, February 12, 2005
The never ending argument
Many of my friends argue over "OSAS" once saved always saved, or losing ones salvation... I think this is wrong thinking. Here is my perspective is shared with them. These are mostly modern thinking pastors.
Gentlemen,
I believe the issue is not a one time confession, but spiritual growth... I see it as "no growth - no seed was truly planted"... Anyone can say I believe... demons believe, but they do not receive new life. They do not have their old nature crucified with Christ.
Action and growth...
To me one can still be very foul in the human sense yet receive Christ and struggle with sin that is still with in... but to just say..."I believe in Jesus and He forgave me", then go and not grow...something is wrong somewhere.
Faith without action...or growth (works) is dead. I think we have too many who are "osas" who are sitters in the pews on Sunday and forget God all week but "feel" secure about it.. This is also the problem of those who believe they can lose their salvation. Funny it is never "I can", but "you can", very judgmental. I have seen many that live as they want all week and just go get saved again every Sunday.... again something is wrong...they refuse to grow.
If we stop worrying about salvation... and think of it as not a destination or line in the sand we can concentrate on growth. If one grows, the natural thing is salvation.
I see salvation as a journey without end. To me salvation is growth...
A simple view is this.
A stream of conversion that moves and pours into a river of redemption and grows as it pours into the ocean of salvation that is Gods Love that has no end. As we grow and enter into Gods love we have the journey continue for there is no way one can find the ending of Gods love.
Blessed,
iggy
Gentlemen,
I believe the issue is not a one time confession, but spiritual growth... I see it as "no growth - no seed was truly planted"... Anyone can say I believe... demons believe, but they do not receive new life. They do not have their old nature crucified with Christ.
Action and growth...
To me one can still be very foul in the human sense yet receive Christ and struggle with sin that is still with in... but to just say..."I believe in Jesus and He forgave me", then go and not grow...something is wrong somewhere.
Faith without action...or growth (works) is dead. I think we have too many who are "osas" who are sitters in the pews on Sunday and forget God all week but "feel" secure about it.. This is also the problem of those who believe they can lose their salvation. Funny it is never "I can", but "you can", very judgmental. I have seen many that live as they want all week and just go get saved again every Sunday.... again something is wrong...they refuse to grow.
If we stop worrying about salvation... and think of it as not a destination or line in the sand we can concentrate on growth. If one grows, the natural thing is salvation.
I see salvation as a journey without end. To me salvation is growth...
A simple view is this.
A stream of conversion that moves and pours into a river of redemption and grows as it pours into the ocean of salvation that is Gods Love that has no end. As we grow and enter into Gods love we have the journey continue for there is no way one can find the ending of Gods love.
Blessed,
iggy
Wednesday, February 02, 2005
For the Good of the World
For the Good of the World
As I have finished reading Brian D. McLaren’s book, The Church on the other side,
I was struck by Chapter 2.
I know I have been blinded too often of the effect we have, not just at our immediate
World around us, but even more as we have this blindness multiplied 1000’s of times over…meaning all Christians going blindly about missing what effect they have on others around them.
To me it is no wonder the Church - who should be an earthly reflection of Christ – is viewed as the enemy or even something evil to the world. We are a bit like the time of the Roman Church as it viewed itself a political Nation, flexing it's muscle, except now we are an “economic power”. Yet, with all this so called “economic power” we still miss the greater power, or lack it…in reaching the world with the message of the Kingdom of God.
When our individual actions show no love on the peripherals (me included) we have individuals whose lives are not touched but in fact tossed out – because of our sin (Blind Modernism). Yet, to see that individual actions impact collectively on a national and global level we must first see the devistations of not just individuals, but also of nations.
Personally, I have yet to discover the ramifications of all this. But it does bring to my mind a thought...
Have we in our focus on individual worship and freedoms lost sight of the “Universal Church”, even worse lost sight of the Kingdom of God?
So many Churches are programmed to say they are “the” Church”.
As one friend of mine pointed out as an example, the word “Baptist”. The definition of Baptist has for the most part lost it’s meaning to most people thus lost it’s impact.
You have Free Will Baptists, Calvinist Baptists, Liberal, Fundamentalist and on and on. Yet, many hang on to the title "Baptist" as if it were their savior. Just as “Bible believing” used to say “Bible centered teaching” now seems to say “ How we read and interpret the Bible is right here” implying “and no where else”.
As we cling to the many outdated and outmoded or “programmed” thinking often the world gets more confused and thus blurs what being a Church or worse being a Christian really means.
We must be willing to lose some of the “old baggage” of the old world church so we can move onto and into the new paradigm.
We need to decide what is more important, our little kingdoms or the Kingdom of God. What is more important to “get them to church”? or to receive more of God’s Children into the Kingdom.
It has become my prayer we lose the baggage we have created. The “us against them” mentality and focus on what makes and defines us as “Christians” Then those who once we would never fellowship would be brothers and Christ would be center of His Kingdom as we let our kingdoms fall.
Blessings,
iggy
As I have finished reading Brian D. McLaren’s book, The Church on the other side,
I was struck by Chapter 2.
I know I have been blinded too often of the effect we have, not just at our immediate
World around us, but even more as we have this blindness multiplied 1000’s of times over…meaning all Christians going blindly about missing what effect they have on others around them.
To me it is no wonder the Church - who should be an earthly reflection of Christ – is viewed as the enemy or even something evil to the world. We are a bit like the time of the Roman Church as it viewed itself a political Nation, flexing it's muscle, except now we are an “economic power”. Yet, with all this so called “economic power” we still miss the greater power, or lack it…in reaching the world with the message of the Kingdom of God.
When our individual actions show no love on the peripherals (me included) we have individuals whose lives are not touched but in fact tossed out – because of our sin (Blind Modernism). Yet, to see that individual actions impact collectively on a national and global level we must first see the devistations of not just individuals, but also of nations.
Personally, I have yet to discover the ramifications of all this. But it does bring to my mind a thought...
Have we in our focus on individual worship and freedoms lost sight of the “Universal Church”, even worse lost sight of the Kingdom of God?
So many Churches are programmed to say they are “the” Church”.
As one friend of mine pointed out as an example, the word “Baptist”. The definition of Baptist has for the most part lost it’s meaning to most people thus lost it’s impact.
You have Free Will Baptists, Calvinist Baptists, Liberal, Fundamentalist and on and on. Yet, many hang on to the title "Baptist" as if it were their savior. Just as “Bible believing” used to say “Bible centered teaching” now seems to say “ How we read and interpret the Bible is right here” implying “and no where else”.
As we cling to the many outdated and outmoded or “programmed” thinking often the world gets more confused and thus blurs what being a Church or worse being a Christian really means.
We must be willing to lose some of the “old baggage” of the old world church so we can move onto and into the new paradigm.
We need to decide what is more important, our little kingdoms or the Kingdom of God. What is more important to “get them to church”? or to receive more of God’s Children into the Kingdom.
It has become my prayer we lose the baggage we have created. The “us against them” mentality and focus on what makes and defines us as “Christians” Then those who once we would never fellowship would be brothers and Christ would be center of His Kingdom as we let our kingdoms fall.
Blessings,
iggy
Tuesday, January 18, 2005
RUDE
Donuts
TES, my dear wife has at times craved things during her pregnancy… the other day… donuts. I dutifully went to Albertson’s… a block away and found the donut section.
You would think after 21 years together I would remember her favorite donuts… I did sort of but made a call just in case.
Mind you I am standing in front of the case of donuts…
“What kind do you like again?”
"Chocolate cake or those cinnamon twist… but a maple bar will do if they don’t have any of those…”
As we talked I notice a woman who was looking at the donuts… I politely moved back so she could get what she wanted…
“There are 2 chocolate cake ones left… I will get one as soon as the lady in front of me moves…” as I was saying this the lady… who had to have heard me talking to TES picked up not one but both of the chocolate cake donuts… and a cinnamon twist…(there where quite a few of those).
She then without acknowledgement turned and walked passed me…
All I could do was laugh with TES still on the phone.
Rude…
Then the other day I was at Wally World returning something… standing in one of those take a number lines… I saw a little old lady push her cart right up to the counter… not taking a number…. Boy that steams me. I saw it was my turn and walked right in front of the little old lady… she was not getting the best of me…and returned my things… she glared at me like I spit in her face… I smiled and walked off…
Rude.
Like 23: 33. When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals--one on his right, the other on his left.
34. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
35. The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, "He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One." (NIV)
Rude.
Blessings,
iggy
TES, my dear wife has at times craved things during her pregnancy… the other day… donuts. I dutifully went to Albertson’s… a block away and found the donut section.
You would think after 21 years together I would remember her favorite donuts… I did sort of but made a call just in case.
Mind you I am standing in front of the case of donuts…
“What kind do you like again?”
"Chocolate cake or those cinnamon twist… but a maple bar will do if they don’t have any of those…”
As we talked I notice a woman who was looking at the donuts… I politely moved back so she could get what she wanted…
“There are 2 chocolate cake ones left… I will get one as soon as the lady in front of me moves…” as I was saying this the lady… who had to have heard me talking to TES picked up not one but both of the chocolate cake donuts… and a cinnamon twist…(there where quite a few of those).
She then without acknowledgement turned and walked passed me…
All I could do was laugh with TES still on the phone.
Rude…
Then the other day I was at Wally World returning something… standing in one of those take a number lines… I saw a little old lady push her cart right up to the counter… not taking a number…. Boy that steams me. I saw it was my turn and walked right in front of the little old lady… she was not getting the best of me…and returned my things… she glared at me like I spit in her face… I smiled and walked off…
Rude.
Like 23: 33. When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals--one on his right, the other on his left.
34. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
35. The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, "He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One." (NIV)
Rude.
Blessings,
iggy
Wednesday, December 29, 2004
Tsunami Relief Organizations
Over 170,000 dead... some where christian... most were not... many who need help are not... now is your time to show God's love.... click on the title and see where you can help.
or click here Tsunami Devastates Asia - Help Now!
or click here
or click here Tsunami Devastates Asia - Help Now!
or click here
Thursday, December 23, 2004
Life with iggy
You may or not have noticed that it has been pretty quiet on the iggy scene. Well not on this end of it! Life gives us much on the daily basis, good, bad, ugly, beautiful, and sometimes so far out of our hands we can either pull back into our shells and hope it blows over, or lay out naked and exposed and cry out to God. This year has had many ups and downs, which at times only God knows what it all adds up to.
TES and Fischer are doing well - but colds and flu and all do take their toll. We moved from Laurel to Billings. Our house hold still has my mother, TES, (wife) Fischer (son) 2 dogs and 2 cats!
The new house seemed so much bigger! Then we moved in and it seemed to shrink!
I have been working at a local Kia dealership which has consumed much of my time since last June.
November hit with a vengeance. We where moving and I was asked to do some promotional stuff as "Mr. Incredible" by our marketing company. It was fun signing autographs for kids (over 350) I even appeared with the Power Team.
Then it really hit. My "numbers" were not good enough so I was fired, then rehired as a delivery driver where I deliver cars to those who buy them out of town. I have gotten to be able to see more of this great nation. I travel Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota (can you find Pine Ridge on the map?) and Wyoming.
the pay is better, but I am often away from home 2 -3 days a week. As far as ministry we have had to stop and regroup as time is harder to come by. We will begin again in Jan - new year and new beginning.
My personal pursuits have been reading more on postmodernism and how we as a Church as a whole ( the Body of Christ for those who don't see it the same way) must change and grow to meet the challenges of the new era ahead of us.
Let's just say it all relates to new wine in old wine skins.
I do appreciate prayer in these areas:
1. finances
2. clarity and focus on ministry
3. health
4. renewed commitment to integrity
and #5 TES is pregnant! So pray for a healthy pregnancy.
All this to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
blessings,
iggy
TES and Fischer are doing well - but colds and flu and all do take their toll. We moved from Laurel to Billings. Our house hold still has my mother, TES, (wife) Fischer (son) 2 dogs and 2 cats!
The new house seemed so much bigger! Then we moved in and it seemed to shrink!
I have been working at a local Kia dealership which has consumed much of my time since last June.
November hit with a vengeance. We where moving and I was asked to do some promotional stuff as "Mr. Incredible" by our marketing company. It was fun signing autographs for kids (over 350) I even appeared with the Power Team.
Then it really hit. My "numbers" were not good enough so I was fired, then rehired as a delivery driver where I deliver cars to those who buy them out of town. I have gotten to be able to see more of this great nation. I travel Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota (can you find Pine Ridge on the map?) and Wyoming.
the pay is better, but I am often away from home 2 -3 days a week. As far as ministry we have had to stop and regroup as time is harder to come by. We will begin again in Jan - new year and new beginning.
My personal pursuits have been reading more on postmodernism and how we as a Church as a whole ( the Body of Christ for those who don't see it the same way) must change and grow to meet the challenges of the new era ahead of us.
Let's just say it all relates to new wine in old wine skins.
I do appreciate prayer in these areas:
1. finances
2. clarity and focus on ministry
3. health
4. renewed commitment to integrity
and #5 TES is pregnant! So pray for a healthy pregnancy.
All this to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
blessings,
iggy
Saturday, October 23, 2004
How would iggy change a light bulb
This is how iggy would change a light bulb.
iggy would pull up a chair and ponder the darkness...he would then question if there is only one way to change a light bulb...he would ask which is more important the changer of the changed...and also ponder if one really can change a light bulb if it does not want to be changed...he would then wonder if he should change it....if he is his own ability can not change himself, how could he change anything else? ..but with God all things are possible and if God wills to change the bulb, iggy decides it would be cool to be part of letting the bulb see the light. But, again, is it better for the light bulb to really want to change and seek to be changed on it's own, will it then with the struggle really understand it's own changing? iggy will go to discussion groups and argue and fight for the different views he has pondered and fight for the views that are valid Christian views about changing bulbs...he would bristle over some very conservative views he see's ridged and question why they thought only their view was valid. iggy would then get discouraged and go back to the burned out bulb...complain a bit that God has given him a certain calling of changing the bulbs....he makes phone calls and organizes a gorilla soup kitchen for latter in the summer. iggy then gets a chair stands on it and reaches out hoping the bulb will just be not twisted in all the way and will come on. iggy pulls out the old bulb....then exchanges it for a new bulb...iggy marvels over how the light shines. iggy thinks the light is good.....and basks in it's glow. iggy cries as he thinks of other bulbs that need changed and that no one will do it....then iggy goes into another room and sees another burned out bulb....he begins the process all over....but now wonders is it the process of changing the bulb...or the changing of the bulb and which is more important.... he thinks on this as he looks at the darkness around him....wishing for the light in the other room, yet iggy looks forward to the new light God has shown.
Now it is your turn!
Blessed,
iggy
iggy would pull up a chair and ponder the darkness...he would then question if there is only one way to change a light bulb...he would ask which is more important the changer of the changed...and also ponder if one really can change a light bulb if it does not want to be changed...he would then wonder if he should change it....if he is his own ability can not change himself, how could he change anything else? ..but with God all things are possible and if God wills to change the bulb, iggy decides it would be cool to be part of letting the bulb see the light. But, again, is it better for the light bulb to really want to change and seek to be changed on it's own, will it then with the struggle really understand it's own changing? iggy will go to discussion groups and argue and fight for the different views he has pondered and fight for the views that are valid Christian views about changing bulbs...he would bristle over some very conservative views he see's ridged and question why they thought only their view was valid. iggy would then get discouraged and go back to the burned out bulb...complain a bit that God has given him a certain calling of changing the bulbs....he makes phone calls and organizes a gorilla soup kitchen for latter in the summer. iggy then gets a chair stands on it and reaches out hoping the bulb will just be not twisted in all the way and will come on. iggy pulls out the old bulb....then exchanges it for a new bulb...iggy marvels over how the light shines. iggy thinks the light is good.....and basks in it's glow. iggy cries as he thinks of other bulbs that need changed and that no one will do it....then iggy goes into another room and sees another burned out bulb....he begins the process all over....but now wonders is it the process of changing the bulb...or the changing of the bulb and which is more important.... he thinks on this as he looks at the darkness around him....wishing for the light in the other room, yet iggy looks forward to the new light God has shown.
Now it is your turn!
Blessed,
iggy
How many.....
This is an take out from Wordofmouthdiscussions on associate.com which I moderate. This was of course all in fun.
Ok.
We have been taking some of ourselves a little to serious lately..great discussions, yet I feel it is time for levity.
So how do you change a light bulb?
How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb?
Charismatic: Only one. Hands already in the air.
Pentecostal: Ten. One to change the bulb, and nine to
pray against the spirit of darkness.
Presbyterian: None. Lights will go on and off at
predestined times.
Catholic: None. Candles only.
Baptist: At least 15. One to change the light bulb,
and three committees to approve the change and decide who
brings the potato salad.
Episcopalian: Three. One to call the electrician, one
to mix the drinks, and one to talk about how much better
the old bulb was.
Methodist: Undetermined. Whether your light is
bright, dull, or completely burned out, you are loved.
You can be a light bulb, turnip bulb, or tulip bulb.
Church-wide lighting service is planned for Sunday. Bring
the bulb of your choice and a covered dish.
Nazarene: Six. One woman to replace the bulb while
five men review church guide on lighting policy.
Lutheran: None. Lutherans don’t believe in change.
Church of Christ: They do not use light bulbs because
there is no evidence of their use in the New Testament.
Amish: What’s a light bulb?
(These two though not Christian are funny)
Mormon: Five. One man to change the bulb and four
wives to tell him how to do it.
Unitarian: We choose not to make a statement either
in favor of , or against the need for a light bulb.
However, if in your own journey you have found that light
bulbs work for you, that is fine. You are invited to
write a poem or compose a modern dance about your bulb
for next Sunday’s service, during which we will explore a
number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent,
fluorescent, three-way, long-life, and tinted, all of
which are equally valid paths to luminescence.
Now the real question is how does a postmodern change a light bulb?
Blessings,
Iggy
The Following are the answers to the last question and an addition to the Baptist statements.
Postmodern contemplating changing the Lightbulb......
Has it been revealed that it needs to be changed?
How do you know its actually out?
Who has received the truth that its burned out...?
It is subjective and if I dont change it ...am I being rebellious?
If I change it and its not out....I am being anti-bulbical?
In the postmodern emerging church movement enviroment ie. ginkworld we no longer utilize lightbulbs.....they are traditional and very cultural.... we no longer need them....as we .......
are shedding our OWN light on all who will take the TIME to listen to us OOZE.....
hehheh ehehehe
this is good stuff
Pastor HughesEast Mesa Baptist Church
Now the real question is how does a postmodern change a light bulb?<<<>
Since we are picking on everyone let me add this:
How many IFB Pastors does it take to change a light bulb?
None! What? Change? Never!
God BlessDr. David
Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y’shua! (Peace and Blessings in Jesus’ name!)
Answered by a IFB Pastor:
Been the same for nearly 2000 years! Why change?
David W
Answered by a Postmodernist:
How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? how do postmonderns change a lightbulb? with great joy and in community - we love, accpet and embrace change :) pax jok
A Calvinist Pastor wrote to this:
But then you debate on whether you know enough aboutthe originalculture of the lightbulb to understand it :)
Which brought out this rebuttal:
well, only if there was a modern in the group :) wewould accept the fact that the buld was culturalybased - and we might seek to find a new way ofbringing light to the room :)paxjok
A Baptist added:
Baptist: At least 15. One to change the light bulb,
and three committees to approve the change and decide who
brings the potato salad.
This will never get done, there’s no Fried Chicken for that Potato Salad!!
To which I added these thoughts:
They gather together and go to their sacred space to meditate on the sermon illustration of the burned out light bulb.
or
They enthusiastically gather to change the light bulb but are suspicious weather the light bulb needs to be change for it is man made and modern yet believe God is the true source of all Light.
or
The light bulb has a right to it’s own view and we should respect it. For if God deems it that the light bulb changes He will change it.
or
Soren Kerkagaard, as the suffering philosopher was challenged as he contemplated the shallowness of the condition to the religious establishment and being a tortured soul pondered if salvation was truly obtainable without understand suffering. So to burn your hand on a lighted bulb a was type of suffering to which one could attain a knowledge of the sufferings of Christ. Yet, to let the light burn would not be as spiritual as to suffer the darkness, as Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane. To suffer the darkness we participate in the meaning of the suffering Christ whom which we wish to understand.
Blessings,
iggy
Ok.
We have been taking some of ourselves a little to serious lately..great discussions, yet I feel it is time for levity.
So how do you change a light bulb?
How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb?
Charismatic: Only one. Hands already in the air.
Pentecostal: Ten. One to change the bulb, and nine to
pray against the spirit of darkness.
Presbyterian: None. Lights will go on and off at
predestined times.
Catholic: None. Candles only.
Baptist: At least 15. One to change the light bulb,
and three committees to approve the change and decide who
brings the potato salad.
Episcopalian: Three. One to call the electrician, one
to mix the drinks, and one to talk about how much better
the old bulb was.
Methodist: Undetermined. Whether your light is
bright, dull, or completely burned out, you are loved.
You can be a light bulb, turnip bulb, or tulip bulb.
Church-wide lighting service is planned for Sunday. Bring
the bulb of your choice and a covered dish.
Nazarene: Six. One woman to replace the bulb while
five men review church guide on lighting policy.
Lutheran: None. Lutherans don’t believe in change.
Church of Christ: They do not use light bulbs because
there is no evidence of their use in the New Testament.
Amish: What’s a light bulb?
(These two though not Christian are funny)
Mormon: Five. One man to change the bulb and four
wives to tell him how to do it.
Unitarian: We choose not to make a statement either
in favor of , or against the need for a light bulb.
However, if in your own journey you have found that light
bulbs work for you, that is fine. You are invited to
write a poem or compose a modern dance about your bulb
for next Sunday’s service, during which we will explore a
number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent,
fluorescent, three-way, long-life, and tinted, all of
which are equally valid paths to luminescence.
Now the real question is how does a postmodern change a light bulb?
Blessings,
Iggy
The Following are the answers to the last question and an addition to the Baptist statements.
Postmodern contemplating changing the Lightbulb......
Has it been revealed that it needs to be changed?
How do you know its actually out?
Who has received the truth that its burned out...?
It is subjective and if I dont change it ...am I being rebellious?
If I change it and its not out....I am being anti-bulbical?
In the postmodern emerging church movement enviroment ie. ginkworld we no longer utilize lightbulbs.....they are traditional and very cultural.... we no longer need them....as we .......
are shedding our OWN light on all who will take the TIME to listen to us OOZE.....
hehheh ehehehe
this is good stuff
Pastor HughesEast Mesa Baptist Church
Now the real question is how does a postmodern change a light bulb?<<<>
Since we are picking on everyone let me add this:
How many IFB Pastors does it take to change a light bulb?
None! What? Change? Never!
God BlessDr. David
Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y’shua! (Peace and Blessings in Jesus’ name!)
Answered by a IFB Pastor:
Been the same for nearly 2000 years! Why change?
David W
Answered by a Postmodernist:
How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? how do postmonderns change a lightbulb? with great joy and in community - we love, accpet and embrace change :) pax jok
A Calvinist Pastor wrote to this:
But then you debate on whether you know enough aboutthe originalculture of the lightbulb to understand it :)
Which brought out this rebuttal:
well, only if there was a modern in the group :) wewould accept the fact that the buld was culturalybased - and we might seek to find a new way ofbringing light to the room :)paxjok
A Baptist added:
Baptist: At least 15. One to change the light bulb,
and three committees to approve the change and decide who
brings the potato salad.
This will never get done, there’s no Fried Chicken for that Potato Salad!!
To which I added these thoughts:
They gather together and go to their sacred space to meditate on the sermon illustration of the burned out light bulb.
or
They enthusiastically gather to change the light bulb but are suspicious weather the light bulb needs to be change for it is man made and modern yet believe God is the true source of all Light.
or
The light bulb has a right to it’s own view and we should respect it. For if God deems it that the light bulb changes He will change it.
or
Soren Kerkagaard, as the suffering philosopher was challenged as he contemplated the shallowness of the condition to the religious establishment and being a tortured soul pondered if salvation was truly obtainable without understand suffering. So to burn your hand on a lighted bulb a was type of suffering to which one could attain a knowledge of the sufferings of Christ. Yet, to let the light burn would not be as spiritual as to suffer the darkness, as Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane. To suffer the darkness we participate in the meaning of the suffering Christ whom which we wish to understand.
Blessings,
iggy
Wednesday, October 06, 2004
Some people on these Postmodern forums are so freakin' smart
Some people on these Postmodern forums are so freakin' smart I have to get smarter to even understand what you are saying...hahahahahahaI see it this way. I have friends who see me as a liberal.... I don't see myself that way at all, yet they think even to dialog with a liberal makes you one. I am very conservative politically...maybe mostly out of laziness...or frustration over the political scene as a whole. Yet, as I am on more pomo discussion groups I am as conservative as they come to some here as my friend jok once said..."you are a modern"...and "you don't' get it".maybe I don't... in essence that is the core of my frustration with moderns and even some who claim pomo as their hill of glory.I see so many "Christians" just settle for what ever view is taught them, often without being told there are other views out there as valid. I have seen when these other views are taught they are vilified and taught as if they are apostasy....and that is just "pre, mid, post, tribulations positions", I was told I was not saved because I was "LOOKING" into the mid trib position. I see, to not allow one to question, limits the ability to test our faith and to grow in it...To me sin is sin...but often the focus is on the sin and we miss that the sinner is loved and redeemable though Jesus. I have found new freedom in my walk to not "be". For one, as I talk to someone like the Muslim I talked to yesterday, when I do reach a friendship level, I will tell him I think all religion is the scourge of the earth an to be "religious" out side of taking care of the widows and orphans, is an act of self delusion...unless one has a relational aspect to not ones religion but to ones faith...iow to not delude our self with self piety by doing our religions but acting out ones faith in real tangible ways that witness to the Grace and Mercy of our living God.It is like the dead sea...it is dead because all things flow to it yet is refuses to give of itself so others may live...I want a river of living water as my faith...flowing, causing turbulence when needed, peacefully flowing at times and raging torrents that can catch one up in it... I choose to live.
Blessed,
iggy
Blessed,
iggy
Thursday, September 30, 2004
Reasons that there may be something wrong with your Church
Reasons that there may be something wrong with your Church
It is not growing.
The people are not growing.
You have not seen a young person for years.
All you see is young people.
Your children do not want to go.
Your wife does not want to go.
You do not want to go.
You have no visitors.
You have visitors but they never return.
Your members bring visitors… but only from out of town.
Even the visitors from out of town do not return
You have alter calls and no one comes forward.
You have alter calls and the same people from last week come forward.
You think you have no sinners in your Church.
All people hear is you voice when they are around you.
Your sermons do not seem to move people.
You do not see that you are changing lives.
You have to ask for volunteers every week.
You have to beg for volunteers every week.
You make the congregation feel guilty for not volunteering.
You make the volunteers feel guilty if they miss a Sunday.
You make the volunteers feel guilty for wanting to quit.
You make the volunteers feel guilty for quitting.
You feel burned out.
Your prayer meeting is not well attended.
People do not seem moved by your teaching.
Your giving is not much.
The congregation’s giving is not much.
You do not call on missing members.
You call missing member every time they are gone.
There is too much “you” in you service and not enough Jesus.
Blessings,
iggy
Wednesday, September 15, 2004
Letter to a friend
Charlie,
Jesus said , "the sick need a doctor not the well." As my uncle has passed away yesterday and I am faced with loss... not just mine, the loss of his children, grandchildren, aunts, uncles and nephews, and of course his two sisters, one who is my mother. We are effected greatly. In the past I mentioned about suffering. Many ask if God is a loving God why does He allow it... I say so we will do something with His Love. We need to look beyond the sadness and death and sickness. We need to look to God who has all things in His hands. We need to learn to trust Him everyday and in everyway... especially when we feel He is gone or not in control. This is when we grow the most. Jesus said, "blessed are those who see and believe, but even more blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe." When we do this we shame the fallen Angels. We show them that even though we never see God, we choose to love Him... We condemn them more because they saw His glorious Face and choose to despise Him.
We are a center of a great story... think of Job. It is not about us.. it is about the Great and living God we serve. It is about the great story of a fallen creature, who chooses to love God for Who He is.
We must persevere... because it is the gift of Life that drives us. We must gain strength in our weakness, for it is in God's Living in us we have strength.
The time you have now, Charlie, is the weariness of Christ on the Cross. The pain you have in your heart is the pain Jesus had in the Garden and on the Cross. But, by His stripes we are healed. He is the Great Physician. We are to be broken again and again to be found later in His image... a reflection of His glory. Death has lost, we see it over and over and think of it as winning, but it has lost. It is scared. Though it seems to have a minor victory, Death is scared that one day He will be judged.
Rejoice Charlie, even if it is not in your heart. Not that phony rejoicing but with wails of tears... which in heaven will be wiped away by our Saviors hands! rejoice not in the present now, but in the Eternal Now! Lift up praises not to the seen but to the unseen!
You have blessed, you will be blessed, as you are blessing to me everyday,
iggy
Jesus said , "the sick need a doctor not the well." As my uncle has passed away yesterday and I am faced with loss... not just mine, the loss of his children, grandchildren, aunts, uncles and nephews, and of course his two sisters, one who is my mother. We are effected greatly. In the past I mentioned about suffering. Many ask if God is a loving God why does He allow it... I say so we will do something with His Love. We need to look beyond the sadness and death and sickness. We need to look to God who has all things in His hands. We need to learn to trust Him everyday and in everyway... especially when we feel He is gone or not in control. This is when we grow the most. Jesus said, "blessed are those who see and believe, but even more blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe." When we do this we shame the fallen Angels. We show them that even though we never see God, we choose to love Him... We condemn them more because they saw His glorious Face and choose to despise Him.
We are a center of a great story... think of Job. It is not about us.. it is about the Great and living God we serve. It is about the great story of a fallen creature, who chooses to love God for Who He is.
We must persevere... because it is the gift of Life that drives us. We must gain strength in our weakness, for it is in God's Living in us we have strength.
The time you have now, Charlie, is the weariness of Christ on the Cross. The pain you have in your heart is the pain Jesus had in the Garden and on the Cross. But, by His stripes we are healed. He is the Great Physician. We are to be broken again and again to be found later in His image... a reflection of His glory. Death has lost, we see it over and over and think of it as winning, but it has lost. It is scared. Though it seems to have a minor victory, Death is scared that one day He will be judged.
Rejoice Charlie, even if it is not in your heart. Not that phony rejoicing but with wails of tears... which in heaven will be wiped away by our Saviors hands! rejoice not in the present now, but in the Eternal Now! Lift up praises not to the seen but to the unseen!
You have blessed, you will be blessed, as you are blessing to me everyday,
iggy
Monday, September 06, 2004
I am tired.
I am tired.
I have called many ministries and tried to get support for Word of Mouth Ministries for about a year now…meeting people who get excited then never show up again.
I don’t care about getting money other than it would help with some of the pressure of supporting a family and being able to spend time to reach out to the community.
I now have been working at selling cars. At first it seemed to be that I would make an income that would let us pay some bills and get this “Church plant” off the ground. I guessed wrong, as I put in over 60 hours a week and have yet to make enough to cover a part time job. I don’t mean to complain, it just as I seek to build a community the ones I find are not ready for community or to grasp at the opportunity to get back into the “church thing”…. I understand, as my mission is to leave the 99 and seek the 1. I know this is the opposite of the “church” at large who seem to be overly concerned with just the 99 that they expect the 1 to just come to them... but they won't.
I would really appreciate prayer as I am about ready to give up this vision.
I have tried to get support from “emerging church planters” and have either never received any word back, or was told I was not Calvinist enough…. which to me was really strange as I know some of the major players of pomo/emerg who would never think Calvinism as “good theology”.
I guess I can only just share my heart here in hopes someone somewhere will see this spark that God has ignited. Not just in me but also in many who seek something real and are not willing to just play church anymore.
Really, this is not a money thing…. It is a heart thing.
Blessed,
iggy
I have called many ministries and tried to get support for Word of Mouth Ministries for about a year now…meeting people who get excited then never show up again.
I don’t care about getting money other than it would help with some of the pressure of supporting a family and being able to spend time to reach out to the community.
I now have been working at selling cars. At first it seemed to be that I would make an income that would let us pay some bills and get this “Church plant” off the ground. I guessed wrong, as I put in over 60 hours a week and have yet to make enough to cover a part time job. I don’t mean to complain, it just as I seek to build a community the ones I find are not ready for community or to grasp at the opportunity to get back into the “church thing”…. I understand, as my mission is to leave the 99 and seek the 1. I know this is the opposite of the “church” at large who seem to be overly concerned with just the 99 that they expect the 1 to just come to them... but they won't.
I would really appreciate prayer as I am about ready to give up this vision.
I have tried to get support from “emerging church planters” and have either never received any word back, or was told I was not Calvinist enough…. which to me was really strange as I know some of the major players of pomo/emerg who would never think Calvinism as “good theology”.
I guess I can only just share my heart here in hopes someone somewhere will see this spark that God has ignited. Not just in me but also in many who seek something real and are not willing to just play church anymore.
Really, this is not a money thing…. It is a heart thing.
Blessed,
iggy
Saturday, August 28, 2004
Paul spoke of a great mystery.
The Bible teaches us to die to self....
We are the Church...
Is it then logical for God to want the Church to die to self?
God said it was not good for man to be alone... It was the first time God said, "It is not good".
We the Church are the Bride of Christ...He still does not want us to be alone.
Paul desire when we present ourself to the Groom we would be pure...
Is it not reasonable that we are to give ourselves in purity and sweet surrender to the Groom?
We are the Church, the Bride of Christ, made pure and holy by Him as when we honor the union of man and wife. Consecrated and set apart for and to each other... to die to others and for each other...
If we are the Church, then will we not die to self and give ourself as a living sacrifice... of pure love as a Bride without shame gives herself to her Lover the Groom.
Paul spoke of a great mystery....
Blessed,
iggy
We are the Church...
Is it then logical for God to want the Church to die to self?
God said it was not good for man to be alone... It was the first time God said, "It is not good".
We the Church are the Bride of Christ...He still does not want us to be alone.
Paul desire when we present ourself to the Groom we would be pure...
Is it not reasonable that we are to give ourselves in purity and sweet surrender to the Groom?
We are the Church, the Bride of Christ, made pure and holy by Him as when we honor the union of man and wife. Consecrated and set apart for and to each other... to die to others and for each other...
If we are the Church, then will we not die to self and give ourself as a living sacrifice... of pure love as a Bride without shame gives herself to her Lover the Groom.
Paul spoke of a great mystery....
Blessed,
iggy
the mad man screams out to chaos
Beyond our perception that one sees as chaos is God, to find God is like the calm of a great storm. to leave the center is to be destroyed, to live in the center is to live in peace as the storm rages. the turtles hide don't they, they see the storm and crawl into shells, can't see so no harm. Don't move and no hurt. But, I am damaged goods... the sick one in need of the doctor, my bones need broken to be fit right, my spirit to be broken to be healed and reconditioned for the weight of Truth and Grace. I squirm and wiggle and pray that no one steps on me. Maybe to be used to catch fish...a worm for the Greatest of Fisher of Men. I am laid low to be lifted up... as my savior was before me. To be beaten and to be stripped for all to see... No martyr complex, but a silent prayer to the One to calm my fear, to not run as Judas but to be restored as Peter. Both committing sin against God but differing in their self view of their sin... One who felt unredeemable and one who thought he never would need to be redeemed lifted up and restored to be Jesus' Rocky.So, do I leave the fighting of the former life... abandon the ones... or do I cause enough pain and torture them with their theology until they give up on me... in hopes as Jesus may have hoped that maybe, at the last supper, Judas may turn and say to Him, "what must I do to be saved?"
When is it the time of Salvation?... for God is Salvation.. so as God is, Salvation is....Now.
blessed,
iggy
When is it the time of Salvation?... for God is Salvation.. so as God is, Salvation is....Now.
blessed,
iggy
Thursday, August 26, 2004
Point of View
I was recently told I am coming across very judgmental. I try to explain it is not that modern churches are right and wrong as such, but a different focus and values...(sound familiar jok? Check out ginkworld.com) She did not see it this way. I then asked her to remember what happened when we found grace and how legalism was everywhere. It was hard to find fellowship. As we grew in grace we then grew to be able to extend it.
I do feel at times like I am standing in a doorway and at first just looked in. Now I feel I have crossed the thresh hold and am looking back and seeing things very differently. I went on to explain that soon I won't be so judgmental as I focus on Christ and the new values He is instilling in me. I still may be more modern in thought than some, but understanding does not always happen all at once. Then that is part of doing my Blog is therapy. To blow off steam and to share in what Jesus is teaching me.
Blessed,
iggy
I do feel at times like I am standing in a doorway and at first just looked in. Now I feel I have crossed the thresh hold and am looking back and seeing things very differently. I went on to explain that soon I won't be so judgmental as I focus on Christ and the new values He is instilling in me. I still may be more modern in thought than some, but understanding does not always happen all at once. Then that is part of doing my Blog is therapy. To blow off steam and to share in what Jesus is teaching me.
Blessed,
iggy
Sunday, August 08, 2004
Living an Abundant Life
Living an abundant life
Often I am shocked by some who focus on the "do's and don'ts" and miss the "who" when it comes to our faith. We all claim a faith in Christ yet then put laws and restrictions on ourselves or worse others. It is clear of the freedom and rich blessings we have in Christ...it is clear by scripture we also "will not sin" as in it is all covered as we abide or as I say live in Christ. I see this concept like this;
I live in Montana, but abide in Billings. I live here in Billings. Yet this is were most people stop. I think the next step is "my very life depends on receiving the sustenance from this town.... for example I work, become involved in politics, have my friends, raise my children...
In other words my whole life depends on my relationship with this town and it revolves around this town.
This is how I see Christians should live, and I think is true. That to really live is to have Christ be the air we breathe and the food we eat, as this is also represented in communion service.
Many stop at Savior, some go to Lord and Savior, yet with out understanding what it means to have a lord. To have a lord is to have no life outside of his. You completely serve the lord. He owns you and can do whatever his will is with you, and you without hesitation obey. We don't like this concept in America, mostly because we are "rugged individuals" but in Christ there is no "rugged individualism" only Christ.
Now, lately I have been writing about something even greater than Jesus being Lord and Savior…but entering into Christ Jesus in a relational aspect. What I mean is this…. He is my life. He is my Lord… yes… but to quote Song of Solomon, chapter 7: 10. I belong to my lover, and his desire is for me.
I see Jesus is a Lover of lovers… for He is God….and God is Love.
When I teach about Sabbath I teach the person it represents, Who is Jesus. I teach how it relates to Christ and how this in turn shapes our relationship with Him. I feel badly for so many who stay in the desert and see this only as a day...but as a friend pointed out...if it is a day to you, serve God as you have faith. I do not condemn anyone with this view but do weep for them as they do miss a deeper richness that is Christ and Christ alone.
Blessed,
iggy
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