This is just an observation. But has anyone else noticed that some of the "biggest" critics out the, like Ken Silva or Chris Pajak do not have any pictures of themselves anywhere on their blogs or other sites? It is like the unknown comic... was he a legit comic? Really, the gong show as big as it's success really never catapulted him to fame. His jokes were lame and so on... and I guess all that was the reason he never showed his face to the public. There are some that are even saying Ken Silva is not even a real person but a group of people writing as if he was a real person. (I do not believe that myself) = )
Now, I am not stating that the people I mentioned are like lame comics who are afraid to show their faces... well maybe I am. But, really if someone cannot show their face, I wonder if it is really worth listening to their voice? I wonder if it is that they actually live in "fear" from all those they attack? I am not sure... but I see that if you can't show your face in public, then their might be something wrong. I say this as one of these guys tried to mock me in how I look... but at least I will say I was flattered in their comparison and will add I walk in no fear of man. I will not only show my face but stand before man and God and as Luther stated;
“If the emperor desires a plain answer, I will give it to him. It is impossible for me to recant unless I am proved to be wrong by the testimony of Scripture. My conscience is bound to the Word of God. It is neither safe nor honest to act against one’s conscience. Here I stand. God help me. I cannot do otherwise.”
Be Blessed,
iggy
38 comments:
Iggy,
So if there IS a picture of the blogger/writer then what they are saying is worthy of attention and our respect?
Come'on Iggy. Where's the logic?
DT
Why don't you check the links on my blog??
http://the4cornersworshipcenter.com/
I have never been afraid to show my face.
I didn't want you to get jealous is all.
Chris P...
Now I understand why you don't have your picture that public...
Just kidding! = )
It is nice to see your face and know who I ma talking with.
iggy
I guess we shouldn't listen to what Jesus had to say. If we can't see their face, are they worth listening to?
Crazy logic
JSU,
Again, I just think it is weird... and Jesus did show his face as he preached... so what a strange and illogical argument you have yourself! LOL! Jesus was seen by the Apostles and many others even after He was raised from the dead... again... you may need to go and read scripture a bit more. LOL!
Also, Jesus attacked the "religious" leaders and not sinners... he also did it face to face and not while hiding in the shadows like a coward... but then maybe you have explained it... your Jesus hides in the shadows and Ken wants to be like Him? LOL!
be blessed,
iggy
I can't really understand how serious you all are taking this! This is hilarious!!!
I wonder if it is just the need to fight and argue? LOL!
I would say that if someone is afraid to show their face but made threatening phone calls to your house... or if they sent letters that slandered you but never showed their face... what would you call that person?
I would call them psychopathic for one and a coward for another... and really if someone has an illness I would not take to much what they say seriously... So to not show one's face is like that to me... like a psychopath off their meds and likes to harm others and not show who they really are.
Now you might have a issue that is legit with me... LOL! But answer the question first...
What would you think of a person that sent out slanderous letters and wrote letters to the editor and never let you see their face?
iggy
DT,
"So if there IS a picture of the blogger/writer then what they are saying is worthy of attention and our respect?"
I agree your logic there is a bit off... LOL! I never implied that at all...
I am saying that if a person is not willing to show their face and attack others, then they are cowards...
It is like a sniper in the forest who is gleeful at his own destruction but wants no one to know it was him. Except Ken wants all to know his name but still hides his face... and that is a bit weird if you ask me.
Ken Silva, as public as he is, has yet to show his face. Christ has... Ingrid has, but she is just trying to get rating for her radio show. Chris P was mocking me because he thought I looked like Brian McLaren... (Which I still have more hair) = )
I just would like to see the face of someone who likes to attack others and calls me "his nemesis" (which I am not)so, I just am wondering, don't you think it weird that Ken does not show his face? What is he afraid of? Is he hideously ugly? Is he so handsome that he is afraid women will flock to his church out of wanton desire for him...
I am not making some high and grand logical point, just wondering why someone would be afraid to show his face when most ministries (legitimate) do show their faces... I just think it is weird that’s all. It looks like some are hiding something.
iggy
Iggy,
So since people DID see the face of Jesus, then it's alright that we can't (as long as somebody did). Since people have seen the face of Pajak or Silva although we can't, we can rest assured that it's alright to listen to them. Sounds like you have a beef with these two gentlemen rather than a rant for all the bloggers in bloggerdom who don't have facial pics.
You said: "Also, Jesus attacked the 'religious' leaders and not sinners..."
I thought the religious leaders were sinners?
JSU,
Alright then... you are the type that needs to be right... LOL!
Yes the religious were "sinners" but they did not see themselves as that... they called everyone else they deemed less spiritual than themselves as "sinners"... now I know you knew that... but then again maybe you did not.
Again, it seems you are here to fight and really I find that this topic was more just silly than serious and you are all bent over it? LOL!
Whatever dude, I have better things to do than fight in a silly argument that you think we are having...
Ken has stated things about me that were very personal... so how not it be personal. If I stated you were not saved and had not even looked into what you believe would you not take that personal? If someone called you “semi pelagian” and never bothered to really look at what you believed, would you take that as a personal attack? Ken even mocked me when I called for a day of prayer and fasting to bless him and his ministry…. LOL!
If someone called you their nemesis? I never considered him my enemy... but he calls me his nemesis? LOL!
Again, I do have more important things than to play bible joust with you... you knew what I meant, but something inside you needed to justify yourself... hmmm maybe pride? LOL! I am not going to converse or post you comments if you are just going to twist things I say to mean what they did not. Especially if you knew what they meant in the first place.
Maybe you need go read this post again...
iggy
Iggy,
You don't need to put "LOL" when you are trying to be direct but want it taken in a fun-loving way. We get the point.
>>"So if there IS a picture of the blogger/writer then what they are saying is worthy of attention and our respect?"
I agree your logic there is a bit off... LOL! I never implied that at all...
I think you did imply it. You said "But, really if someone cannot show their face, I wonder if it is really worth listening to their voice?"
Sharing your opinion is going to draw the love and opposition that all blogs draw. You put something out there that does not make sense and you put it on the backs of others..."Alright then... you are the type that needs to be right... LOL!"..."Again, it seems you are here to fight and really I find that this topic was more just silly than serious and you are all bent over it? LOL!"..."Whatever dude, I have better things to do than fight in a silly argument that you think we are having..."
"Ken even mocked me when I called for a day of prayer and fasting to bless him and his ministry…. LOL!"
Iggy, let's get something straight. That day of prayer and fasting was a farce. It is a mockery of sacred things and you should repent. This is not a "pray for your enemies kind of thing."
"Again, I do have more important things than to play bible joust with you... you knew what I meant, but something inside you needed to justify yourself... hmmm maybe pride? LOL!"
You are really something.
DT
Iggy,
One more thing.
I have mentioned this to you and you still do not relent. You need to work through your feelings toward Ken and Jim. The statements that have been by them were their feelings and they felt them to to right. You CONTINUOUSLY bring these occurances up (whether to plead your case or draw pity) without working through it.
The proof's in the puddin'
DT
Iggy,
Also, Jesus attacked the "religious" leaders and not sinners... he also did it face to face and not while hiding in the shadows like a coward... but then maybe you have explained it...
your Jesus hides in the shadows and Ken wants to be like Him? LOL!
This is what we call below the belt, cheap shot, dirty pool and Iggy style.
DT
"I am not making some high and grand logical point".
We agree.
DT,
Jim who? I never mentioned any Jim? Ken is still out there bad mouthing people so is a public figure... All I am saying is if someone is doing they they should show their face... LOL!
You guys all have made this out much more than it was originally intended... and all I see is a few thinned skinned people with nothing better to do than to harass me.
So, again as Ken pointed out while miss quoting and misrepresenting what I was saying to fit his own agenda. The only point is that if someone is out there attacking people or making accusations, then they should at least let us know who they are. I am not asking for much there. Just a picture... you know to give me more of an image as to who I am praying for so they can overcome their issues with everyone.
Now, DT, I assume you know a bit of church history... did you know Ken has made accusations against most if not all the Reformers and most if not all the early church fathers by saying anyone that pushes the desert mystics is a heretic?
Go and read this.
I would much rather discuss that then your guys insecurity about showing your faces.
About "below the belt"... Ken is hiding in the shadows... and I see that his Jesus is about fear and anger and wrath... so I see the connection... and I call it like Jesus did with the religious leaders of his day. If Ken wants to be taken serious, I ahve given him a lot of great advise and he just makes snide remarks and innuendos such as his comment above.
Lets talk about how Ken is smearing Calvin and Luther in his "anti mysticism" as they were influenced by Augustine, Aquinas St Bernard of Clairvaux... and how he smeared Athanasius of Alexandria in that he wrote about St Anthony of the Desert while fighting Arianism and creating one of the first canons of scripture as we have it today, let alone that he created the Nicene creed...
If one looks at history it was the mystics God used to keep the teaching of Grace alive.
Lets talk how Ken in his ignorant grasp of history and zeal to attack his brothers in Christ has smeared all of is own heritage... I could go in to much greater detail... but that is enough for now...
As far as i am concerned you guys all have made mountains out of mole hills over a none essential... but that seems consistent to what you do most the time so why should I be surprised.
be blessed,
iggy
DT,
"You don't need to put "LOL" when you are trying to be direct but want it taken in a fun-loving way. We get the point."
I am a fun loving guy and full of the joy of the Lord... it is a natural outflow of my spirit since I came to Christ...
But if you must attack that and mock it then so be it... you just mock Christ in me my only hope of Glory... and that is fine with me.
iggy
Iggy,
The "LOL" that you are so fond of usually follows a jab. That is what I am opposed to.
You and I have been over this before. You jab with a sweet LOL and when someone calls you on it you say "I was just having fun" or "it was all in jest."
DT
DT,
Ken came and "jabbed" me... and you say nothing... but here I am trying to keep this light as you and JSU seem intent to prove how much you guys love to dwell on the pettiest and most trivial of things... and still no answer to what I stated about Ken's disregard for the historical Christian... it is just a continual personal attack against me...
So, DT, why did you come and "jab" me with your first comment... and you did... when you twisted my statements and you stated;
So if there IS a picture of the blogger/writer then what they are saying is worthy of attention and our respect?
"Come'on Iggy. Where's the logic?"
I also shows that you like to set your standards on others but not play by the same rules.
DT, I have tried to be polite to you here and state my case, yet you seem more intent in trying to prove some point about how I am such "whatever you point is" person... truly as I stated more than once, I have more important things to do and discuss than your insecurities and defending Ken as he attacks others and defames the historical Christian faith... ironically you seem to back that and in that mock the dead theologians you hold so high.
I see in this that you would rather try to ignore major issues so that you can attack someone else on minor points of disagreement.
This post was lightweight and done on a lark. It was not a hit piece and did not mean anything other than I observed that some who attack others seem to not be bold enough to show their face. Chris P showed up and showed his face and I thanked him and even did a post about how good his worship band is.
Meanwhile you go on and on about Jim (I am still wondering which Jim you are talking about) and how much I hate Ken, which I do not.
I am asking you to stop your slander in saying :
"Iggy, let's get something straight. That day of prayer and fasting was a farce. It is a mockery of sacred things and you should repent. This is not a "pray for your enemies kind of thing." "
I did fast and pray sincerely for Ken and even a few other people did also. I even asked people that were in agreement with Ken to pray.
So unless you can judge my heart... which you cannot. You need repent for stating what you do not know and for bearing false witness about me in that. I think this also reveals your heart and how much issue you really have with me. In fact I think you need to read what you said to me and go and pray hard as I think you are projecting your issues on me and need to deal with these things between yourself and God.
iggy
And we think you are projecting your issues onto us and need to deal with these things between yourself and God.
Ken,
You may be right, but most likely are wrong...
be blessed,
iggy
Iggy,
May the Lord bless you and give you peace.
DT
DT,
again, I ahve presented some real issues and the focus was on the trivial and on me. Instead of facing the fact that Ken is out of control and now defaming Calvin and the dead theologians you hold in such high acclaim, he is stating that they are heretical as they were influenced by and at times promoted "mystic" teachings.
Also, I am truly in doubt to the sincerity of your words at this point. I see them as rather patronizing.
I still have not clue as to which "Jim" I am bringing up all the time especially since I did not do so in this post or my comments. I also see that you are unwilling to take a stand on truth and protect the Historical Christian heritage we share.
Ken is Ken and really i seem him as more of a joke and a banging gong... I sincerely pray for him, but he is in God's hands. My only hope is that he comes to his senses and realizes the harm he is doing and the error of his own teachings against the Great Reformers he claims to represent.
Again read the post I suggested and give a real answer instead of wasting my time on these trivial and petty things.
I have the peace of Christ. He gave me His peace years ago and it has never left. God is faithful and just... and I see that in the end He will prevail and some who cried out "Lord, Lord" and trusted in their works, under the guise of being "faithful" will be told away from me you evil doer.
I pray that is not the case and will continue to pray for those who seek to divide and harm the sheep of the Chief Shepherd.
Until next time.
May you come to the fullest of knowledge of Grace and Truth in Christ.
iggy
Iggy,
"Also, I am truly in doubt to the sincerity of your words at this point. I see them as rather patronizing."
I don't know your heart but you know mine. Hilarious!!
Jim-OldTruth
"Ken is Ken and really i seem him as more of a joke"
Don't they call that an ad hominem?
Why do you worry about the Reformers? You are an Arminian. Talk about trying to cause division.
"Again read the post I suggested and give a real answer instead of wasting my time on these trivial and petty things."
If this is so petty and such a waste of time then why do you:
1. put up goof ball posts(unknown comic)
2. get upset when someone challenges said post
3. want to divert attention away from said post and go off on a church history diatribe?
"I pray that is not the case and will continue to pray for those who seek to divide and harm the sheep of the Chief Shepherd."
Ahh, the very thing you accuse us of is the cow patty you are standing in.
Again, work through your unforgiveness with/of Ken and be liberted. Do you know how many times you have brought up on numerous sites how Ken did this to you and how Ken did that to you?
Iggy, it has become embarrassing.
DT
DT,
I never judged you, as you did me in your accusation that my day of prayer was a farce.
I stated that becuase of our conversations in the past and now, I doubt your sincerity. That is not a judgement... it is how I feel about you. There is no trust.
As far as you me being an Arminian... I am far from that... nor am I a Calvinist. I hold to the early church Fathers and the historical church in all its good and ugly. I see that there is error in all camps... yet as RUPERTUS MELDENIUS stated which is often attributed to Augustine:
"in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity."
I think that since you think I am Arminian and I am not, that should show you how little you know of me and how quick you are to judge....
Now Chris Pajak is from an Arminian background... which is what Ken attacks often with his "man-loving semi pelagian" yet it seems to not bother Ken that Chris is one and it does not bother Chris that Ken speaks such a way of his own beliefs...
I hold to the exchanged life. I believe in Free Will as taught by Iraenius as it was taught in a clear line from the Apostle John. I hold to salvation alone by Grace. I see that Lordship salvation adds works to grace... as do most from my heritage.
My influences are Maj Ian Thomas... and though he be a cessasionist and dispensationalist Bob George helped me greatly in understanding and gaining a firm grasp of Grace.
As far as the a your "ad hominin" that is hilarious as first off the only one here arguing is you... I was not and am at this point only holding up the facts which you are subverting by referring to this puff piece I did here... when I ahve directed you to much stronger arguments elsewhere. All I am asking is that you read it instead of harping on how much you disagree with this post... big deal you hate it? Whooopeee! I have never had that before... man this is so hard that you disagree with me on this puff piece! I am so outraged! LOL! or should it be ROTFLMBO! Really this has been so boring of an exchange I have thought about not letting your comments go through so people who fall asleep as they read this thread! LOL! (jab jab)
Again, you are reading my motives i do not have... I am calling that those who are hurting others to stop...
Now, again as far as the "history diatribe" there was a context to this thread and you seem to be dismissing it.. .which leads me to the patronizing attitude I get from you.
The only cow patty I smell is the one that comes from your false accusations.
I did not get upset at you differing opinion about the post... I was irritated that this being so trivial, when I have offered up another post with more substance, that you ignore it and keep on with this one.
As far as your
"Again, work through your unforgiveness with/of Ken and be liberted. Do you know how many times you have brought up on numerous sites how Ken did this to you and how Ken did that to you?
Iggy, it has become embarrassing."
This shows me that you do not care to face sin... you are just one that condones it in the face of facts.
I have forgave Ken every time he has stated things against me... yet that does not mean one should stop him as he hurts others and lies about them.
I wonder that you seem to think that it is right to let a person continue in sin and do nothing about them when they do continue.
I recommend you read 1 and 2 Corinthians about that issue you have.
You constant rebukes in all you ignorance about me is what is embarrassing... = )
iggy
Oh... and show me where I talked about your buddy Jim here at all... it was you that brought him up... in fact when you said Jim I thought of another one... LOL!
If you go and read all these places that I am supposedly attacking Jim... I show up and make a comment... Jim or someone goes and tells him I am their... he shows up and then attacks me by calling me insane and slanders me... then I try to ignore him until he turns the conversation into a hate iggy the insane emergent fest.
So Again... show me where I said anything about Jim here... and then when you can't apologize for stating a false hood about me.
iggy
Iggy,
I am totally amazed at how you read into everything. You take caddy jabs at people and dare them to say anything.
Reading your comments on Scripture are an eisegetical nightmare.
You derive pleasure and joy from putting others down and when someone questions you you say they are calling names. Amazing.
It is my fault that I have engaged you and with that I apologize.
Proverbs 26.4,
DT
Iggy,
For the record only
"I did not get upset at you differing opinion about the post... I was irritated that this being so trivial, when I have offered up another post with more substance, that you ignore it and keep on with this one"
It is not trivial when names are listed.
I am only commenting on this post. I have not looked at your other posts.
"I have forgave Ken every time he has stated things against me... yet that does not mean one should stop him as he hurts others and lies about them."
This shows you do not have a proper understanding of forgiveness. If you really forgave him then you would not have to cry on everyone's shoulder about what everyone's done to you.
DT
DT,
Talk about not letting things go... this is day two and you are still going on and on and on...
Go and read your last two comments and follow your own advise...
Also, you stated:
"It is not trivial when names are listed.
I am only commenting on this post. I have not looked at your other posts."
This also proves my point (again) that you do not care to move forward in a conversation but fixate on the most trivial and petty things...
Look up the work obsession... your picture may be next to it...
good grief...
Let it go man...
iggy
DT,
I have forgiven Ken everytime he posted something against me? I am not saying you shouldn't forgive him, but, Pause here for effect, this should tell you something. Someone that you have to keep forgiving over and over maybe has an issue with the truth, or at least with offending people with his opinions. Just consider.
"I have forgiven Ken everytime he posted something against me?"
Unless "Nator" = iggy; when have I posted something against some "Nator"? So why all the secrets and different names Carlos?
You know, I heard somewhere that people ought not to listen to "unknown" critics.
Ken,
I am not nator, nor is nator me...
I have never hidden that I am I. Todyaso and that blog is mine and even have made it know very publicly at a place where you go often. And from there you can see my real name and real picture. So nothing is "hidden" as you falsely accuse. LOL!
So much again for your great research... sorry...
So, when will you actually answer the questions I asked or give answer to the other post I recommended in this thread? Once again you ahve proven just like DT, that you are more entranced with trivial and petty things than really giving answers.
Thanks for showing all what is most important to you... attacking me for a rather "lame" post which I keep admitting, and ignoring ones of more substance. = )
iggy
Iggy,
For the sake of clarity...
You said..."So, when will you actually answer the questions I asked or give answer to the other post I recommended in this thread?"
Once again it is everyone else that must answer all-knowing Iggy. If you are questioned you bring out both guns (just like you accuse us of) and red herring and ad hominem us to death. You are never wrong the world owes you an apology. Not here. You need to repent of your repeated attacks on Ken and those of us that care for him.
If you are not Nator then who is? You can chase the ip as others do you :)))))
May the Lord reveal Himself to you and awaken you to His Lordship.
DT
DT,
you just go on and on and on and now dig deeper with even more false accusations...
How about this... go here poke around a bit and then come back and apologize for your false accusations. =)
Nothing is hidden... as you can also go here and under "Check out this guy!" in submissions you will see one of the many times I revealed who I. Todyaso was.
Then if you will instead of continuing to prove my point about how you guys seem to focus on trivial and petty things go to the post I linked to and give an answer.
iggy
Also,
Both of you missed the point. I am not saying that just becuase a person does not have their picture that they should not be listened to... but that if a person is very publicly attacking others (and has even been on the radio and has some media attention such as being mentioned in Christianity Today) why would they keep their face hidden?
You are so fixated on your idea that it is me that needs help, but totally over look that Ken continues in sin and you condone it and even come and defend him by attacking me is accusations against me.
And then seem to lazy or prideful to look at others point of view and give then an answer.
So this is day three... and still nothing of substance and a waste of my time.
I am seriously thinking of not allowing your comments through anymore DT.
iggy
Iggy,
You can't start rejecting DT's comments. Otherwise this post wouldn't have over 30 comments. YOU NEED HIM!
You say you've forgiven Ken, but everytime other time you comment you're bringing up how he's unjustly done something to you. Self pity or unforgivness? I just can't tell.
JSU,
No, I forgive him every time he attacks me... yet I what I am stating is he is still out attacking others and not offering reconciliation to them... in that Ken continues in sin.
I have not ill will toward Ken... in fact I sorta like the guy and appreciate his convictions... I have stated this many times...
But, to allow a brother to continue in sin without doing anything is condoning and in a way promoting their sin. I am calling for Ken to stop and look at things a bit more before he attacks others.
In his attacking, he is also attacking Historical Christianity and those that gave us things like the bible and creeds... even bringing the Reformers (which DT misses that Arminius was one) into question as they were influenced and sometimes promoted the desert mystics Ken rails against.
I am in prayer for Ken daily... I truly care. In that i am accuses that I am a fraud and a fake a liar and whatever empty accusation one can throw at me. DT has proven that he is unwilling to look at facts... or to see that he might be wrong.
Now, as far as DT's accusations I never apologize... go over to CRN.info and if you poke around a bit, I am rebuked and corrected and apologize often.
iggy
JSU,
Also, using your logic, Jesus then had "Self pity or unforgivness? I just can't tell."
iggy
When people hide or do not reveal their identity and judge/condemn/attack others, I say they are wearing an Internet Hood. The KKK would not be so daring (or may not even exist) without their hoods...perhaps the same would hold true here as well.
Jeromy,
OUCH!
I might point out that none of these people came back after I pointed out their false accusations. The ones that made the accusations never even bothered to come back and apologize.
I wonder... is that the sign of their faith... to ever accuse and never confess or set right their wrongs?
Makes me sick... in fact it makes me glad i am support Emergent Village and the emerging church where people strive to walk what they believe in earnest and not just spout off meaningless words.
Be blessed,
iggy
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