Friday, July 28, 2006

The last comment on Steve Camp

The last comment on Steve Camp

Sadly I was sucked into the false assumption Steve Camp really was trying to have a sincere conversation… it turns out he was not.

In our exchange I decided I did not want to subject myself to his abuse any longer… with that I withdrew myself from his blog. I did give him at least 2 times to prove to me he could be genuine yet as you can read below straight off his blog he continued his veiled hate language.

I will though answer his questions here…. said...
A few quick thoughts for you to humbly consider: 1. Are you going to answer the question about McLaren and church discipline? And if no, why not?

Iggy: I add your previous question just for clarity…

“Let me ask you one question that not one of you Ecers have ever addressed: Why haven't you and others (Driscoll and Kimball too) called for church discipline against McLaren for his aberrant and heretical beliefs?”

Iggy: This is a very open ended question… and phrased like, “Are you still beating your wife?” but I will address my view on McLaren.

Brian McLaren is Brian and I am not… He has his views which some if you really understand what he is saying are very valid and need addressing from people like you who insist on name calling and finger pointing instead of addressing what he brings up.

Brian is like a school professor who engages his student to think. I have no problem thinking and even being challenged as I have gone into the issues he addresses and found that God was big enough for my questions, and my faith strong enough to grow even more in Christ even when I did not like or get the answer I was expecting. Mostly I have found by going through and processing my faith, much like Brian, I am more sure of my beliefs and have lost much of the none essential baggage.

Is Brian a heretic? Not to me, I think he has some challenging views and what many do is not understand that he is standing on a higher value of purity, especially on human sexuality… he believes we cannot separate homosexuality from the whole of human sexuality… we must deal with all the issues… like teen pregnancy, unwed parents, hetero fornicators… even a superficial look at his books one will find this out. He is for, that we go deeper into not allowing some sin to be ok and winked at, while other sin (homosexuality) is the ONE we harp on. It is way out of balance and we are alienating and losing many to hell because we are content in just calling them sinners.

I choose to live by the what Paul said, “15. It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.” (Philippians 1)

I also see that scripture teaches not to judge for that is God territory… you see I believe the words of Jesus are true…yet, I will bet I only get a theological argument on the justification of judging others…

Matthew 7: 1. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
4. How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
5. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6. "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
7. "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
8.For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9. "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
10. Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?
11. If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
12. So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Also, consider Romans 14: 4. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

2. What I have said to you is not abuse, but dialogue. I thought you EC guys prided yourself on being able to engage anyone in a conversation of faith?

Iggy: It is abusive dialog… the case in point is in question number 4… “Glad to see that you don't believe all that you say either.” You seem to not be able to comment with out a cutting remark or putdown… that is abuse Steve… plain and simple.

3. It's not about winning; it's about the truth of God being honored.

Iggy: I agree. That was sarcasm on my part… out of frustration that you just don’t get it… We EC are looking to all we can to honor God… you see that’s why we left the modern church, which is on display on you blog and here in your questions… do not bring God honor, but shame as it show a lack of regard for reconciliation and only wants to argue and be abusive, be divisive and judge and condemn… we see a much higher standard than doing those things to bring glory to God, and I personally will not lower my standards to those things if I can help it, which is why I am addressing you here on my blog and not on yours. For that is the attitude you are coming across with. I win, you lose. I’m right, you’re wrong… which is all in your wordings… so to you in all honesty it is all about winning. To me it is about growing in Christ…

4. You have said three times in a row that "this is my last response..." Glad to see that you don't believe all that you say either.

Iggy: It only shows how welcome and loved I felt… that 3rd time … was a 3rd chance… remember Jesus and Peter?

Grace and peace,


Col. 1:9-14

Iggy: I am not sure of your definition of Grace or peace… but I am not sure I want yours… (yes that was as cutting as you comments, yet that is the why the warning against judging as you will be judge back the same way… that is the principle played out in case you miss it).

Col 1: 9. For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding. 10. And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, 11. being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully 12. giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. 13. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Yet, that would be my prayer for you also… as I do not think you realize what you are defending in defending the modern church… I would challenge you to study out what modernism really is before defending it so vehemently… you might be surprised as to what heretical things have cropped up into the church through it.


Technorati tags:
, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

No comments: