Tuesday, January 22, 2008

Atheism vs. Christianity





Atheism vs. Christianity

I have taken on fundamentalist, and anti emerging church folk... so I was looking around and wondered who else can I take on who might also hate me! LOL!...



Just joking.




I have had a few conversations with atheists in the past yet recently I was told the definition of "atheist" and "agnostic" is not right... I do beg to differ in this as I see that this is a more recent "redefining" of terms...




An Atheist is one who had looked a the Theists proof and is not convinced at the evidence. Atheists claim to not have decided one way or the other... (I will again bear correction if this definition is not right)




Agnostics are defined differently by different people... but lets state here (and i will bear correction) that an agnostic sees that there is no God as there is no evidence to prove one exists.
Now, I have been talking to a few and really have not gotten anywhere as there seems to be a hang up on if "thought" exists or rather if "abstract thought" exists in the empirical world of the atheist and agnostic.




Now, for fun I want to submit this debate. Two rather articulate men Greg Bahnsen vs Gordon Stein. This is the famous debate that people still talk about.







Please listen to the whole thing the let's discuss.
I will do another posts with more debates.



Be blessed,



iggy

6 comments:

Scotty said...

Just proof I have no life (grins) retirement has it's perks! I listened to the whole debate. I wasn't impressed with either party in this debate. As usual debates like this serve little. The people that listen to these things always think their guy did the best....

One little light that got me was when Buhnsen says " that's the problem with atheism, it's based on faith! I heard Stein's pucker strings twanging!

iggy said...

Scotty,

I had heard most of this in other places... I have been debating some atheists and Anti-theists in another forum and was surprises as I used the same arguments as Bahnsen, they either don't give an answer, or they just mock you for being dumb... and still you get no answer.


My personal issue though is that as i speak to Christians about Jesus being Personal Truth... or that He is the Truth incarnate, and we do not need to add "absolute" as a qualifier in the bible... I still needed to state truth is an absolute...

Note, I do believe Jesus is absolute... He is that Almighty God...

So, what I figured out was that it is the detachment of Truth from the Person of Jesus that bothers me in the Christian world and that I still see myself working toward showing Jesus it The Truth in the secular debate.


All that to say is that Stein was an incredibly smart guy, and to be honest, still I saw him as the underdog and sort of rooted for his! LOL! Yet, in the end he did not give any answers but skirted around the whole debate as if he assumed he had given the answers...


It was very interesting in how it helped me develop my own thoughts clearer and that as I used the argument they worked...

I loved the faith statement also... but I also love that he stated over and over that the atheist need borrow from the Christian world view in order to use the rules of logic and reason...

Good to hear from you!

blessings,
iggy

Scotty said...

The thing I find fascinating about all this debating is how Bahnsen and many other christian debaters don't use the thing that absolutely shows us that God is indeed real and Christianity is true. Prophecy! And the fulfillment of prophecy.

I often get the impressions that christians are uncomfortable dealing with that portion of God's Word. It certainly was the knock-out punch for me, when it was explained to me, to accept Jesus as my Savior!

iggy said...

I thought of that also... yet, most people I have come in contact with that don't believe the bible think it was all written after the fact...

So even if you prove it, they will just believe what they will...

I guess this is why I state that people don't come to Christ becuase of some man's preaching, but becuase of the Holy Spirit...

As Paul states, God uses the foolishness of the world to confound the wise... and a dead man risen to life is pretty confounding! LOL!

iggy

Scotty said...

I just don't allow myself to get drawn into debates like that. Most folks in debates like these are not looking for answers they're looking to be right. Comes a time when one has to reach the decision that you're casting pearls before swines. It doesn't take a lot of discernment to realize when someone is really not interested in what your saying.

When I was in sales I went to a seminar once and walked away with a little gem, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". I see that happen so so many times!! I usually don't have to go looking for someone, God has a way of putting them in front of me!!

iggy said...

Scotty,

I actually did not go there to debate anyone. My friend used to be a professing Christian and has become "atheist" as he now does not see evidence and has lost faith in God.

Now, I have had great doubts and even tried to walk away, yet I am drawn back... for like Peter I come to realize, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."


The one thing I cannot see, is that one of faith can see that there be no God. If one has an encounter with the Living God and is changed, I see nothing else is more powerful that that Truth.

I tried it without God and with God... and I tell you with Him is much better.

iggy