Monday, March 27, 2006

Good Questions.... and an answer to my critic

Good QuestionsAside from the attack that Phil Perkins who teaches at Yellowstone Baptist College here in Billings Mt. Phil raised some good questions. (Yet he is not listed on the personal page, though I did find him here) Sorry, I have no email to contact Phil personally to thank him for showing you I am a fraud! LOL!

What makes ones credentials legit and other’s not?

To me it is about first following God’s calling in one’s life. I have written many times as to how I ended up with UCMI and have never hid anything about it. I do not “use” these credentials to any real personal gain. I do use them at times when I find someone with lesser faith who needs that “authority” to give them comfort. By this I mean as an example, when my friend’s child died, I was able to minister to the family because I had this card that said I was a Reverend. Now anyone who knows me will know I never use Reverend. My real name is Carlos Shelton. I use iggy as a way of being neutral to those who read. I mean an iggy sounds harmless. It started out for my own protections as the internet is an ugly place at times, yet it stuck as I began to do the blog, and hosting my discussion group.

I am still in good standing with UCMI who when I applied over 2 years ago, had me answer many questions about my faith and beliefs, all of which are pretty much what I have on my word of mouth ministries website. UCMI has a college, and is a way for me to stay accountable in preaching Jesus and teaching from the bible. I may not agree with many who also have gone to UCMI for ordination, yet I see that they are fulfilling their calling as best they can. This is not like many of the “send money, ordains anyone” websites. I thoroughly researched and questioned and corresponded with them before I join and was ordained. Today I may not hold to some of what they believe, and I may not renew next year. I have been in denominations that ordain within their congregation. These are legal and it seems I have done more than many of these have themselves. I recommend checking out UCMI if one wants to. Even write to them and ask questions… even about me. BTW I have not had enough money to “buy” the parchments. LOL! I also have not gained anything monetary from anyone and have paid for this ministry out of my own pocket with the exception a good friend who has sent a very humble donation at times. Also, Word of Mouth Ministries is registered with the state of Montana as a legal entity. I have not yet found a reason to become none profit 501(c) as I have not received donations that would warrant the cost.

The second question is this, when the bible plainly states: “Who are you to judge another man’s servant?” So how can one rationalize attacking someone’s ministry without having any real knowledge… or even if one does have real knowledge? This comes to me under the guise of religion. To me the greatest evil to befall man is religion. It calls for the separation of God and man, whom God has now redeemed. It runs contrary to the Spirit and ministry of reconciliation that all believers are called to.

I know personally I may have not handled Phil right. Yet, as I looked into where he is coming from, a very legalistic Baptist background…. Most probably KJV only, I will have to say, we will never agree on much. In that I hope to live a peace as best I can. I will say if I had something to hide I could have deleted Phil’s comments, but since I don’t I will leave them as a reminder of who I once was and rejoice in the Life of Christ I now live, unshackled form religion that is not of a true believer. I contend and am content with the Scriptures teaching of True Religion and that is taking care of orphans and unwed mothers. The rest can burn in its false assumption of humility and self delusional self-righteousness. To me I can really care less about the Phil’s as I am sure those who I have ministered to will speak the truth of my character and ministry for they know me, Phil has not even taken the time to talk to me personally before he attacked me.

On Brian McLaren: I agree with him on many levels, and disagree with him on many others. In him I found the freedom to question and in that I have grown more in Christ. If one reads Brian’s books you may be surprised on how traditional he really is. In fact I may not be comfortable in his church for just that reason…. Tooo traditional.

The Emergent Movement: I am very open that first off I am reluctant to call this a movement as I see it then loses the substance we “emergents” hope to accomplish. In this “movement” I have found many who have outgrown the traditional man made institutional church. They have found a richer and deeper faith that connects them to Christ’s Body and gives a real meaning to being brothers in the Lord.

I will add this, I hope to someday develop the grace and humility to answer my critics as well as Brian McLaren, I see in this I have much to learn from him.

Blessings,
iggy

8 comments:

Phil Perkins said...

Iggy,
Just two notes. When I show up Sunday, I will be both polite and respectful. And the last comment was done on the fly before going to work. Sorry about all the typoes likely to be there.

Phil.

iggy said...

Phil,
Where are you going to show up?

We are in the process of checking out another church plant and seeing if we can pool our resources. So, feel free to call me and you can join us there. So far you have shown very little maturity in your comments toward me with threats and accusations. In fact you have been very unscripterial if you really believe I am "in sin". In fact you have impune my character and UCMI which have reported to them. I really do not care what you think of me nor your opinion on who i am or what I am doing. I do not need you or any other man for my self worth, that I receive from God.

I forgive you though as I think you have not read enough of my thoughts to have an educated understanding of what i teach.

Blessings,
iggy

Phil Perkins said...

Iggy,
I will answer your questions one at a time. However, you have still not answered my first two simple questions. One, do you think sodomy is a sin or do you follow Brian McLaren? Two, is Scripture without error and our sole authority for faith and practice, or do you follow Brian McLaren (who denies both of these doctrines) in this regard as well? These are two simple questions and those that you seek to teach should get these answers. If you continue to refuse to answer these publicly, I will politely and respectfully ask you about them in public this Sunday in West Park during your meeting. And I will be glad to publicly debate you anytime, any forum.

Now to your questions.

Iggy: What makes ones credentials legit and other’s not?

ANSWER: Honesty and knowledge.

Iggy: To me it is about first following God’s calling in one’s life.

ANSWER: God has called us all to honesty.

Iggy: I do not "use" these credentials to any real personal gain.

ANSWER: You list them first in your blurb for some reason.

Iggy: I am still in good standing with UCMI who when I applied over 2 years ago, had me answer many questions about my faith and beliefs, all of which are pretty much what I have on my word of mouth ministries website. UCMI has a college, and is a way for me to stay accountable in preaching Jesus and teaching from the bible.

ANSWER: No, they really don’t. For instance, if you look up what it takes to get a "masters" you will find working in a church, a 20-page research paper, one sermon, and listening to 120 hours of tapes. Or about as much class time as one easy semester at a real college. Call it a college if you like, but most of the world does not.

.Iggy: Today I may not hold to some of what they believe, and I may not renew next year.

ANSWER: Then why do you claim them as an authority?

Iggy: This is not like many of the "send money, ordains anyone" websites.

ANSWER: No, it is a "send money, fill out some papers, and THEN ordains anyone" website.

Iggy: I have been in denominations that ordain within their congregation. These are legal…

ANSWER: So, why did they not ordain you? This is the NT pattern.

Iggy: The second question is this, when the bible plainly states: "Who are you to judge another man’s servant?"

ANSWER: Guess who said, "The rest can burn in its false assumption of humility and self delusional self-righteousness?" You did. The context of your quote is Romans 14. God told us through Paul not to argue over non-biblical opinions, like keeping or not keeping special days, burning in false-assumptions of humility, and so forth.

Iggy: So how can one rationalize attacking someone’s ministry without having any real knowledge… or even if one does have real knowledge?

ANSWER: I read your stuff and I have read Emergent leaders. "The rest can burn in its false assumption of humility and self delusional self-righteousness."--Iggy.

Iggy: … or even if one has real knowledge?

ANSWER: Easy. Jesus did it all the time. Paul did it and named names. We are commanded to do it all over both OT and NT. Would you care to debate the point in public? At any rate, you do it all over your blogs.

Iggy: This comes to me under the guise of religion. To me the greatest evil to befall man is religion.

ANSWER: James highly recommends "true religion." Religion and accompanying rituals are prescribed on both OT and NT. Have you not heard of the rites of baptism and communion? Jesus commanded both. Singing hymns and spiritual songs, praying, are all religious activities.

Iggy: I know personally I may have not handled Phil right.

ANSWER: Oh, heck. That’s okay. Maybe I’ll just burn in my false humility and self delusional self-righteousness. (Wow, my teeth just got hot saying that!)

Iggy: Yet, as I looked into where he is coming from, a very legalistic Baptist background…. Most probably KJV only….

ANSWER: Most of my study is in the original, all memorization is in the original, and my favorite translation is NASB. But then how can one rationalize attacking someone without any real knowledge?

Iggy: I will have to say, we will never agree on much. In that I hope to live a peace as best I can. I will say if I had something to hide I could have deleted Phil’s comments…

ANSWER: It actually seems you have.

Iggy: Phil has not even taken the time to talk to me personally before he attacked me.

ANSWER: I will debate you any time, any forum.

Iggy: On Brian McLaren: I agree with him on many levels, and disagree with him on many others. In him I found the freedom to question and in that I have grown more in Christ. If one reads Brian’s books you may be surprised on how traditional he really is.

ANSWER: Traditional? Like denying that salvation is for individuals who ask? Like denying the authority of Scripture? Like approving sodomy? Like saying that disciple-making does not involve calling folks out of false religions like Islam? Yeah, he’s a real stick-in-the-mud.

Iggy: The Emergent Movement: I am very open that first off I am reluctant to call this a movement as I see it then loses the substance we "emergents" hope to accomplish.

ANSWER: So if we say "movement" it loses something? What if we say "ollie ollie oxen free?" Then what?

Iggy: In this "movement" I have found many who have outgrown the traditional man made institutional church.

ANSWER: "upon this rock I will build my church"--Jesus.

Iggy: They have found a richer and deeper faith that connects them to Christ’s Body

ANSWER: uh…that would be the church according to Paul, but then, he was not Emergent. He was just an apostle.

That’s all for now. I think I have a zit emerging.

Phil Perkins.

iggy said...

Wow Phil,
You know all the answers....

I guess all has been said becuase you have said it.

I will not suffer a fool and his folly any longer.

1. Homosexuality is a sin....
But Jesus loves the sinner. Are we to do otherwise? No. It seems though you are content with people that Jesus loves, going to hell without thinking and finding a way to reach and show the love of Christ and the Kindness He shows us all. This kindness is what leads us to repentance.
2. Brian McLaren is Brian McLaren I am not, I already said I agree on many things and disagree with other things, but honestly, I think your grasp of God's grace is very immature.
3. You impugn me still, without knowing anything about me, nor the gifts God has given me. I do not care at all what you think... I think I have said that before.
4. Again, debate you? Why? I don't think you are even in my league! LOL! Grow up a little Phil.
The Emergent's I hang with love without judgmentalism and condemnation... There is no condemnation in Christ; your attitude is very unChrist like.
5. I have been a student and disciple of Christ for many years, I have seen much and have debated over 38 pastors from many different backgrounds, you can read the archives on my discussion group. The early ones are the best as it seems these pastors have become my good friends.
6. As brother in Christ and with Master's degree, you seem to not know the Biblical way of approaching someone you think is "in sin".
7. Your attempt to amuse yourself by answering these questions also shows your grand ignorance of the topic you are attempting to mock. I suggest actually listening and reading the people themselves instead of reading others thought on them.
8.If you read the literal translation of the passage that Jesus is talking to Peter, the language implies that it is the faith of Peter Jesus is building His Church on, not Peter... that is very Catholic of you... too Catholic for a Baptist.
9. You seem to be an obsessive personality. In that I hope you seek counseling of some sort. I am not afraid of you and have shown YOU for what you are, an ignorant fool who has no knowledge of the topic he speaks from.
10. Jesus freed us from the Pharisees, yet I think your religious spirit is the same as the spirit of the Pharisees, you can only see what you want, as your lack of faith has blinded you.
11. I seem to take the bible more literal that you, as you have overstepped your authority (perceived) and really as I have pointed out have no right to do as you have done in defaming my character. BTW this is a real issue that can become a problem is I decide to talk to YBC about your character assassination and threats. So in that I recommend you go back to your secondary institution, stop cruising blogs on work time and give your student a quality education.
12. I believe there is a line in the sand that one crosses to be saved, yet it is not in going to an alter, praying a prayer, saying the right words, or holding the right beliefs. It is in the heart of a person that Jesus sees His righteousness reflected.
It is His righteousness that matters and His Eternal Life that He lives in us and through us. If you disagree with that you have a problem not with me but with scripture and I would recommend another denomination other that Baptist as that is their view also.

That is about all I have to say to you off the top of my head.
Good day,
iggy

iggy said...

BTW Phil,
you again said a false accusation as to that I have deleted soem of your comments... I have not. I am more than willing to let you folly and ignorance and pride all sit here for all to see.
be very blessed,
iggy

Phil Perkins said...

Iggy,
"Homosexuality is a sin..." This is good. It is progress. However, you still have not answered my question about the authority of Scripture.
Be careful here. If you confess the Bible as our sole authority and true in whole and in part, then you will have to repudiate Brian McLaren. According to John, "If any man comes to you , not bringing this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, and do not even speak to greet him. For the the one speaking to greet him has fellowship in his evil deeds."
Choose one. Jesus or Brian.

Phil Perkins.

iggy said...

Phil,
you have access to the Word of Mouth Ministries website... I have laid out what I believe very clearly on it. I have said this a few times now.... If a student kept coming to you for answers and you give him directions to get them and he refuses to go there to get them... what would think of that student? Well, I think that of you.

On Brian McLaren: again, he is his own person and I can tell you have never really read much by him. You can not base his personal beleifs on a fisctional book... nor base his or my own threology that way. it would be like taking Chronicles of Narnia and saying it is scripture. You are very ill informed and attack without any real understanding or knowledge.
As far as a conversationist you lack many social skills.



Good day,
iggy

leviathen said...

may I just add a little in here.........

phil....let me just say with as much as my little heart can muster.......... your a real ass.

at no point during any of your rambling, name calling or zealotism did I hear anything that remotely sounded like a "kind rebuke". At no time did anythign that you uttered sound like christ.

i shudder to think what you teach your students. I shuder to think of the christianity that they are spreading.

honestly, go back and read your bible some more. find out what it really means to "be like christ"

l.