Sunday, July 08, 2012

Thoughts on Satan, Job, Jude and all things adversarial

My half of a conversation between a friend on FB and myself. 

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day.

Free will was given to the angels and they chose to leave their habitation thus leaving the presence of God so God taking the stronger ones chained them in Tartarus. Now, what interests me is that most of this comes straight from the Book of Enoch. Is it true or based on fables and used as an example for us.

I think Job shows the type of battle with "powers and Principalities of the air" that Paul talked about. However before we jump into "demons and wizards" remember in Jewish thought, Satan was not necessarily a "being" but an arch-typical adversary and could have stood for anything that was "adversarial" which means it could have been symbolic.

While we could carry over the Book of Enoch, I prefer to explore the idea of "satan" as being any type of adversary that keeps us from God. That opens up a whole can of beans without Demons and such.

The idea that anything (such as the case of Job being attacked in a "spiritual" sense) could be a spiritual attack could Job's children been a point of idolatry (though the Bible states Job was "righteous" in God's eyes... which should in itself tweak some people's theology as it does my own.)

So, in a sense anything standing between God and man could be seen as adversarial and thus even Job's children could have been a stumbling block or Job's pride in his own righteousness that comes out later just before Elihu shows up (don't he seem like Jesus?)

I see that we freely chose and God responds. As Job chose to whine, God explains clearly that Job has no right to whine as "I am God and owe you no explanation for my actions". I think that the Grace of God is shown in the fact that though God does not owe us an explanation is shown in the irony that we have the story of Job to reveal a part of God not known. I see job as God's winking at us a bit. It is like, "Here is the story of a man who suffers more than anyone, yet in the end he prevails. I did not need to tell you this story, but by grace I have as I love you."

At least that is what I get out of Job. = )

So in a sense if Satan is just any adversarial issue (right word?) then these powers have been chained (symbolically) in darkness and we have the power and blessing of God to overcome them.
Again, that is my humble opinion. LOL!


Chris Welch - 07000INTUNE said...

why do modern people have such a problem with a real Satan who is invoked and "appears" in different forms as people of darkness meet.
If Jesus didn't turn up in gatherings I was in I would leave....and do.
I just don't see the problem. Nor does any converted witch.

Chris Welch - 07000INTUNE said...

The irony is, as we discover in every walk of life we may look at,it's run by the Council of 13 all according to thier beloved Lucifer. Yet the church seem to be the only ones who dont see it .Thoughts of Lutherans in the 30s.

iggy said...


As far as a "real Satan" I think most think in terms of some entity that roams the earth and not everyday things that can become idols in our lives, which in turn become satanic or adversarial.

Let me say it this way -- maybe the entity "Satan" is not as we think but is an entity of adversary? What if in our minds we can create a reality that is not real. We create this "hell" and "Satan" out of our false sense of God's creation and it becomes a perverted version of what is True Reality in and who is Christ Jesus.

So, in a sense, this false reality is "real" to many who accept it lies and all. While those of us who choose Jesus, accept True Reality in the Person of Jesus. Thus this new reality, hell is gone and the New Heaven and Earth are hear if we want to see them.

I think in a sense thinking in terms of symbolism and overcoming evil gives freedom from many "false" superstitions that Christians believe and teach everyday (Like Tim LaHays version of the Rapture). I think NT Wright does a great job in explaining the real meanings of Paul writings than what Darby (who was an astute biblical thinker)did. I think there are many things we take for granted like when I die I will go to Heaven and miss the Heaven that is already within us.

Anyway, reading through the OT in my OT class has got me thinking in many different terms.