tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post4473898828094256306..comments2023-10-12T03:10:09.276-07:00Comments on emerging thought...: “The Last Dying Gasp…”: UpdatedAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08894632401827590745noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post-56747775106318108702008-11-25T17:18:00.000-08:002008-11-25T17:18:00.000-08:00Emerging to me is all about the journey. While I h...Emerging to me is all about the journey. While I have concerns with Tony's statement.........I am quite willing to wait and see where he goes with all this. I am one of those left leaning emerging "kinda" guys so I am somewhat sympathetic to Tony and how he is working through this.<BR/><BR/>In recent months I have been seeing a psychologist on a weekly basis. First time in 51 years I have really sat down and openly talked with someone. It has been tough. I shared with him that people tend to over judge me because they catch me when the pendulum is swinging to the farthest extreme. That's just the kind of person I am. Often I end up somewhere between the extremes and people need to give me the space to work that out. <BR/><BR/>So it is with Tony. I am going to let his pendulum swing and see where he ends up.<BR/><BR/>BruceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post-35480440521225492962008-11-25T11:14:00.000-08:002008-11-25T11:14:00.000-08:00I thought the statement was prophetic itself.I thought the statement was prophetic itself.Doorman-Priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06407399232593479871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post-88764359237300470162008-11-23T14:51:00.000-08:002008-11-23T14:51:00.000-08:00Iggy,Thank you for your gracious response. Your ex...Iggy,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your gracious response. Your explanation of the Emerging Church/Conversation was helpful. Again, I wasn't intending any judgment or condemnation of anyone involved at all.<BR/><BR/>Over the years, I've grown very weary of American/Western Protestant Christianity for a couple of reasons.<BR/><BR/>First, much of Protestant theology is a blind, knee jerk reaction to Roman theology. We've inherited doctrines that we've never really searched out. Proverbs says it is the glory of kings to search out a matter, and although it may vary a little from group to group within the Protestant camp, I would say that, for the most part, we've failed to do so. Therefore, we are fighting a war (largely among ourselves) that has been over for awhile. We can defend our doctrines without ever really seeking the truth behind it.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, American/Western Protestant Christianity seems to have produced an "a la carte"Christiantity, i.e., a "pick and choose" Christianity. This one really concerns me. I literally meet sincere brothers and sisters daily who follow the Lord Jesus on their terms. They love Grace, Mercy and charismatic experiences that affirm them and make them feel good,but they explain away the discipline of the Cross in daily life. They choose His teachings that bring them comfort and peace, but they reject anything that asks more of them than they want to give, anything that makes them uncomfortable or that means suffering. In other words, anything that means dying to self. And what we're left with is shallow Christians who never mature. They never learn to walk in the Spirit, so they eventually end up walking as carnal Christians, believing the whole time that they are mature "little Christs".<BR/><BR/>That's why I'm often skeptical and weary of some "new" thing in American Christianity. Again, I do not mean to presume or give a blanket judgment on anything "new"; I guess I feel like it's "Groundhog Day" (the movie) in the American church. It feels like I'm watching the same rerun again.<BR/><BR/>I hope this makes sense. I sincerely don't mean any harm to anyone, and I'm terrible at communicating my thoughts at times. So, if I have failed to speak with humility, mercy and grace, please forgive me and disregard my words. Thanks and may God lead us all into His truth and His fullness. Amen.John Gary Feisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16464120135582943531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post-50715966544497469422008-11-23T09:27:00.000-08:002008-11-23T09:27:00.000-08:00Thank you for your respect for Tony, and the fact ...Thank you for your respect for Tony, and the fact that you are giving him time to work through this. I was on a similar journey recently, and although I came out on the conservative side of it, I lost friends in the process. Tony is a good man, and a man of God, and I believe we need to pray for him, not condemn him. God bless you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post-47579183129680827732008-11-22T18:43:00.000-08:002008-11-22T18:43:00.000-08:00Gary,GLBTQ means as you thought. Gay-Lesbian-Bisex...Gary,<BR/><BR/>GLBTQ means as you thought. Gay-Lesbian-Bisexual-trangender-qestioning. <BR/><BR/>I think the thing is that so many think of the emerging church as trying to reinvent Christianity... some might be... yet many of us see it as a rediscovering of what was lost by traditions and really bad theologies that are out there.<BR/><BR/>I see that when I found Grace, I emerged into a fuller understanding of my position with God by Grace through Jesus. In this also as I stated, I prefer emerging conversation as emerging church gives the impression of a separation between this "church" and that "church" which most of us in the emerging conversation do not believe... mostly this is the outsider perspective that is foisted on us. Rather, we are speaking of the Kingdom of God which is eternal and everlasting and that we are a part of... that is not reinventing Christianity at all for how could we do such a thing? <BR/><BR/>For many of us, and especially why I was drawn to the EC was that there was a great understanding of the Grace of God... by filtering all we see through Grace we see things much differently... we see people even more different... as scripture states:<BR/><BR/>2 Cor 5:15. “And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. 16. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”<BR/><BR/>If regard people from a worldly view we limit what God is doing in them even if they do not yet know Him. Yet if we view people through Grace and as reconciled… and need to know that, then we view them as much more than GLBTQ. Do we accept them in Christ or do we reject them for their sin that Jesus took away at the Cross? Why is their sin stickier than mine? <BR/><BR/>Now, if they do not come to a saving knowledge of Christ then of course none will matter and all is lost for them and us. Yet again, if they do, then it is the job of the Holy Spirit to lead them and correct them and teach them as He does us.<BR/><BR/>Again as far as the Emerging Church reinventing anything there is a tendancy for us to bristle at the thought as it is not that we are reinventing, but emerging from the legalism, teachings, doctrines and false ideas made up by man that are thought to make us more holy or acceptable. I found for me though I am one voice, which many of us have come out of legalistic backgrounds and found Grace. This messed us up… for we found we love others and the Church often stands in the way of this Love for others.<BR/><BR/>I think one thing that has emerged that the Church as lost.. is hope.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>iggyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08894632401827590745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6984861.post-50413823595962674052008-11-22T16:51:00.000-08:002008-11-22T16:51:00.000-08:00Hey, Iggy!I read the article on "The Last Dyi...Hey, Iggy!<BR/><BR/>I read the article on "The Last Dying Gasp...". I have two questions. The first is: what is the GLBTQ? From the context, I gather it's "Gay & Lesbian something or other. Please explain.<BR/><BR/>The second thing is this (and it's not really a question): <BR/><BR/>I believe that American and Western Christians have a tendency of always trying to reinvent the wheel, i.e., to reinvent Christianity. I believe the motives are sincere (usually it's cultural & contemporary relevance), but I question the source or origin. I say this because I've seen movements come and go with great fervor and zeal; but eventually, there seems to be a "seperation of ideas and direction", which is usually (but not always) the beginning of the end.<BR/><BR/>Recently, I've come to believe that if we would really give ourselves to living the Gospel, we would be relevant - no matter what culture or age we lived in. The Gospel is the power of God to all who believe (Rom. 1:16) and Christ is the power of God (1 Cor. 1:24). The Gospel is a Person, living in persons who have given up their own rights and agendas; Christianity is Christ living in us and through us, so that we live in Him and are conformed to His likeness in holiness and righteousness. That's pretty relevant to a fallen humanity, I think.<BR/><BR/>I believe Christianity works when it's Christ doing the work. The Church doesn't need to "emerge"; she just needs to start being a lovesick Bride. The Church needs to be followers of Christ instead of seeking to be interior designers of the Kingdom. Nothing needs to be re-engineered. God made the Church - and no matter how screwed up or sickly she may be at times, she's the Bride of Christ and the gates of Hell has not ever, and shall not ever, prevail against her.<BR/><BR/>Please understand that none of this is intended in judgment or criticism, just offering my dialogue. I don't think for one minute that I have my finger on the pulse of the Church worldwide. I just wanted to give my thoughts and to hear yours (or anyone else's) in return.<BR/><BR/>With humility and sincerity,<BR/>GaryJohn Gary Feisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16464120135582943531noreply@blogger.com